I don't know about Yao haters but there seem to be a lot of legit things about Yao that have nothing to do with the red tape that should concern people. Things like the CBA season which from the website provided is just 24 games long and takes place over a period of 4 months. Basically they play a game a week in that league. That's even softer than college, especially when you consider academics. Also, looking at the stats on that site it had Yao third in the league in scoring at 27.6 but frighteningly it had Wang Zhi-Zhi 5th at 25.6 and Menk Bateer 6th at 23.7. Zhi-Zhi and Bateer are at the end of the bench in the NBA. Not to mention Bateer was named the MVP of their All-Star game! If Ming is really the second coming he should be destroying these types of players. Think about that and then consider how much more physical the NBA is over international ball. I doubt anyone in the CBA really has the strength to put a body on this guy but it's going to happen in the NBA. His jumpers probably aren't going to look as pretty after people start banging on him. As for Yao and his skills, does anyone really want a 7'5" finesse player? Forget Rick Smits, do you want a softer virtually unproven version of Ralph Sampson? Sampson was two time college player of the year from a power conference back when college actually had NBA ready players and he could be shut down by the likes of Bill Hanzlik. Yao by virtue of his size, skill level, and lack of quality NBA posts is probably going to put up some numbers for someone but I don't know if the Rockets are the fit for a finesse guy like Yao especially if Griffin is our power forward of the future. Remember that Smits had Antonio/Dale Davis next to him and Ralph had Olajuwon next to him to handle a physical player. Forget the twin towers, that would be the twin toothpicks.
Timing: I think Bateer and ZhiZhi has a good potential in NBA too. Remember that Bateer just play three months' of NBa and his stats is not poor at all. (He is more than 300 and 6'11 tall). For Wang zhizhi, he is not at the end of the bentch by ranking 2nd among four Mav Centers, ahead of Bradly and Eshmyer, and I think he may become the start center in two years.
Actually, have you ever been to gregory Gym on the UT campus? Tons of pick up games; and the Asians more than hold their own against the Caucasians. There are some pretty athletic Asians out there.
Timing and Pooh222, Did either of y'all see Ralph Sampson play? The guy makes Bradley look like the Rock. Well, not really but they're very similar in body structue. Sampson was 7'4 and he only weighed 230-240. Yet the guy was a total machine before he got hurt. He could drain jumpers and hooks over any guy and used his height to get boards in the paint. Now, Ming weighs at least 280 which is a solid 40-50 pounds more than Sampson (and Sampson averaged over 10 boards and 20 points a game several season). How many times do I have to say it people. There is nothing wrong with being a finesse center. When you look at Bradley for some reason people think finesse center. NO, he's a CRAPPY center and shouldn't even get far enough to be categorized as finesse or power. Did you know that Hakeem was a finesse center? That's right, he wasn't in the low post doing power slams over everyone. He would get the ball in the mid to high post on most occassions and do a spin move or hook through the paint or baseline J over ANY center. Why does it matter if you have to be like Shaq and dunk over everyone because you can't shoot from more than 4 feet when you can be just as effective shooting over everyone (and at 7'5 he should be able to shoot over people once he learns to use some lateral movements)? People, Shaq is a freak and we're not going to get a center like him. Its like saying that we don't have a PG like Magic who could get 10 apg and use his 6'8 body to post up so we shouldn't even bother getting a decent PG if he isn't the absolute best that every played the game. Ming will never be like Shaq, but that doesn't mean he can't do a lot of things Shaq can't. We already know he can shoot outside J's and FT's better than Shaq. Can he develop solid post up moves like Hakeem? Can he be a solid rebounder? Those questions are for Rudy and CD to decipher before the draft but I find it seriously doubtful that anyone in here can be certain of those factors. It does appear for sure that he is going to score some points with the way he shoots but no one knows how good he'll be defensively and no one knows how good a rebounder he'll be because he'll have to play NBA style ball before we know.
Ming is a project.............no doubt about that. But it's a project that's worth the risk IMO. He's young, freakishly tall, skilled, athletic for his size, and already 30 lbs. bigger than S. Bradley for all those that want to compare. What do we do.....take another guard when they're a "dime-a-dozen". No disrespect towards any perimeter players, but they simply aren't as rare as a big man. Sure we probably won't find a Tmac, Kobe, or Pierce.......but we can find solid perimeter players....if the Rockets work at it. Hell, if we picked up players like Rhodes, Cato, Collier, Langhi, Torres, Drew, Mark Bryant, Dickerson, Rice, Moochie, Brown, Carl Herrera[however you spell it], and Morris........why wouldn't we pick up someone like Ming who has a bright upside?
Originally posted by bsb8532 Timing and Pooh222, Did either of y'all see Ralph Sampson play? The guy makes Bradley look like the Rock. Well, not really but they're very similar in body structue. Sampson was 7'4 and he only weighed 230-240. Yet the guy was a total machine before he got hurt. He could drain jumpers and hooks over any guy and used his height to get boards in the paint. Now, Ming weighs at least 280 which is a solid 40-50 pounds more than Sampson (and Sampson averaged over 10 boards and 20 points a game several season). If you'd really seen him play you'd know better than to call him a machine. He wasn't a machine and he averaged 20pts/10rebs exactly twice. Sampson was a known commodity when he entered the league unlike Yao. Yao is definitely no Sampson right now. The only part of this comparison that would favor Yao is that there aren't any centers in the league right now. How many times do I have to say it people. There is nothing wrong with being a finesse center. When you look at Bradley for some reason people think finesse center. NO, he's a CRAPPY center and shouldn't even get far enough to be categorized as finesse or power. Did you know that Hakeem was a finesse center? You're talking about Hakeem Olajuwon right? That's right, he wasn't in the low post doing power slams over everyone. He would get the ball in the mid to high post on most occassions and do a spin move or hook through the paint or baseline J over ANY center. So spin moves and jump hooks in the paint denote being a finesse center? Did you ever watch Hakeem play? When he came into the league he was a brute and would try to dunk on everyone. As his skills improved his play began to change however he based all of his low post moves off of body contact from the defense. He would feel for the defender and make his move off of that. You're mistaking a skilled center with a variety of moves to a finesse player who stands out at 18 feet shooting jump shots all day because he can't handle the contact.
YES, spin moves and baseline J's would define a FINESSE CENTER! How else would you define it? Power means you're in their bruising everytime down the court to get position in the low post. Hakeem could do that on occassion, but the majority of his game was not needing to get great position in the paint. Against smaller centers he could battle in the paint or if he caught a bigger center off gaurd, but for the most part he didn't need to fight in the post for every inch. What do you think Hakeem was? A power center? I've never heard anyone refer to Hakeem as anything but a finesse center. People used to think we couldn't win with a finess center. Do you even know what finesse means? 1. Delicate skill 2. cunning; artful management Do those 2 definitions not perfectly describe Hakeem Olajuwon? Hakeem was having speed and agility (delicate skill) and outsmarting his opponents (cunning; artful management). I don't know how else to describe the guy and the fact that you think he isn't a finesse center simply amazes me. Anyone else on this board think he isn't a finesse center? Also, Sampson was considered to be better than Hakeem and have more potential before he got hurt. My point was that Sampson was a very good center (would you be happy with 20/10 out of your center?) and he did it only weighing 230-240 pounds. Ming weighs 280-290, so how can he possibly be INCAPABLE of playing center but Sampson could somehow be effective at 230 playing in a time with better centers? The answer is because he IS big enough to be an effective center.
[ulp] well said, Timing. bsb, the definition of a Finesse Center is a Center who can't bang. Hakeem in his prime could bang with the best of them. . . Kemp, Malone, Young Shaq, etc. yes, Dream had moves [by the way, Dream was about 100,000 times faster than Ming--watch the video clips in michecon's thread], but Dream could also do the physical stuff in the paint. I think most of us who are "anti"-Yao are just too worried by the frailty of his body to get behind using the top pick on him. so many of the "best" arguments people are using to state why we should take him fall completely outside the realm of basketball: 1) he'll fill the stands 2) he'll create excitement 3) he'll get the nation to pay attention to the Rockets 4) he'll make Les a lot of money well, even if all those things were true, those still don't sway me as a person who wants to see the Rockets as good as they can possibly be. furthermore, if he sucks and gets tossed around by players like Greg Foster, none of those 4 things will happen. Yao actually kind of reminds me of another player taken with a high pick who was renowned for his size and who was supposed to come in and revolutionize his league: Tony Mandarich. you take all those on-the-court concerns, and then you add them together with all the off-the-court concerns, and what you have is a very tenous situation. DON'T DRAFT YAO! that having been said, I don't have anything personal against the guy. actually, from what I've read, he sounds like an outstanding individual, a real class act. I just don't think he can hoop. but if we draft him, I'll get over it and pull for him.
and another thing. . . I'll go on the record with this hot sports opinion: I think the majority of posters on this board have got an acute case of Savioritis, including most of the big boys. that's right, Will, Achebe, HeyP, Clutch, Manny. . . I think y'all and the great majority of the rest of you have this condition which works in the following way: - you love a team - that team goes through a bitterly sucky year - you hurt for your team - you pine and pine and think of ways your team could become good again - your teams wins the lottery!! - you're happy because this is better than sucking - you find one player to believe in, the One who will make your team good again - you fixate on that player, losing the ability to objectively consider the rather large amount of evidence that indicates he may not be such a Savior after all - you dismiss out of hand any proposals or suggestions by others to the effect that perhaps your Savior is not a Savior but perhaps a big stiff Savioritis. get help! it's not too late.
First of all, I'm not a Yao Ming hater. But I think there are better things we can do with the #1 draft pick. One concern is Yao Ming's ties with the Chinese government. Another concern is his upper body strength. I don't think we need a finesse center either on this team, which it looks like Yao will become. We need a guy who can bang inside and play the post. I don't think we have enough information to evaluate his talent either, just limited workouts. And thank you for posting that. No matter how much excitement and popularity he brings to our team, the only thing that matters is winning.
Chievous, I think many here will agree that Ming has just as many question marks as he does answers. The problem is we are not "in the know" on what offers the Rockets have obtained for the #1. I don't think there's a person here who wouldnt trade the pick for a Very good young player, a top 10 trade down and move a huge contract. However, even the proposed offers all have question marks surrounding them, Odom included (drugs, potential injuries, stupidity). Right now there are 2 players projected to go 1,2 with everyone else a crap shoot. Since Williams is a player we definitely do not need, and since the Rockets may not receive a good offer for the pick, I believe its positive that we the majority of posters are in the "Draft Ming" camp. And I also believe that if the Rockets received a great package for that pick, most fans would love to have that too.
No, no, no. It's not Savioritis. It's Tankitis. Once our season was clearly screwed, we rooted for our team to tank the rest of it, and they tanked it fair and square, and by golly, we want our #1. Don't tell us there's no Tim Duncan this year. Yao Ming is Tim Duncan, and Hakeem Olajuwon, and Earl Campbell, and Spiderman. Did I mention he's Martha Stewart?
chievous: Great post and I think you might be onto something, at least with me. Because it is true that I want to see the Rockets get back to the playoffs so badly that I'm willing (probably foolhardily (is that a word?)) to believe in almost anything. However, I am nowhere close of being in the same category with heypartner, heb, Will, and Clutch. But I appreciate the compliment, nonetheless.
Will, Manny: I'm glad you guys are at least willing to consider the possibility that maybe you have succumbed to the perils of Savioritis. but. . . now that Doc Rocket has come through with his big news, I think I'm looking to contract a little myself. if you can't beat him [ie. convince the Rockets to not draft him], you might as well join him [ie. believe that Yao Ming = forward progress; Kush saves all]. Savioritis. . . Catch the Fever!! seriously, I hope Ming works out for us [literally and figuratively]. I think he's going to look reeeeally bad before he looks good, but maybe The Merciless will be able to fulfill all our Dreams. I just wish we could somehow still get Caron Butler. anyway, thanks for being good sports.
I am only 5'8'' and I can grab the rim, now if I was 5'11'' I could probably do some Vince Carter-esque Dunks. Now, I know how this site always ask for pictures and links and proof, Just come to the next cc.net pick up game. Yes I am Asian, I am Cambodian.
