A great rebounding point guard and a power forward who scores? or A point guard that doesn't rebound and a banger power forward who doesn't score? Your choice cannot be "both". That is not an answer. We'd all like both I'm not giving that choice. ------------------ Time for a new cause.
It's not that simple. Rudy doesn't play Carlos and he is a good rebounder, but can't stretch defenses. I suspect somewhere in the middle, and reliant upon matchups. In that light, Mo and Kenny are a good tandem. ------------------ It just goes to show how skewed our priorities are when Mo Taylor makes millions of dollars while some high school teacher, that can actually rebound, scrapes to make a living. If Mo were half the power forward that Charles Barkley was, he'd be 3'2" and still board more than he does now.
Off the top of my head, I would take a point guard that does not rebound. The smaller guys will end up hurt trying to play among the trees and the PF doesn't get back quick enough to stop fast breaks. ------------------
[edit:] oops i reiterated ot's message. ------------------ It just goes to show how skewed our priorities are when Mo Taylor makes millions of dollars while some high school teacher, that can actually rebound, scrapes to make a living. If Mo were half the power forward that Charles Barkley was, he'd be 3'2" and still board more than he does now. [This message has been edited by Achebe (edited November 22, 2000).]
I'll definitely take a great rebounding point guard and a scoring power forward. With Rudy's system, I think we need someone at PF with a versatile offensive game that can play from the outside or inside, and stretch the defense. And because Rudy likes to have his big men being able to shoot from the outside, it's imperative that you have a good rebounding guard who can go inside, leap high, and get a rebound when the big man is indeed outside of the paint. ------------------ President of the Jason Collier fan club! Looking for next year's Jason Collier or Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
I'd rather have the first with a rebounder coming off the bench, KT is great. ------------------ Ceo of the Walt Williams fan club. Web site coming soon atheistalliance.org
In theory, I want the PF to rebound so the guards can focus on transition defense. But there are alot of "banger" PFs out there who wouldn't be nearly as good a fit with this team as Mo is. ------------------ "Don't blame me. I think I voted for Gore." -Florida bumpersticker
With Rebounding Guards. . . How gets back on Defense? [i.e. People getting TABAK'ED!!!] I like my guards to Rotate back Gimmie a banger!! [banger on norm get more rebounds than rebounding guards.] Rocket River Guard rebounding on Defense is great on Offense is just baiting the long pass up court. ------------------
hmm. i would actually take a rebounding big man. I know jeff said we cant say both, but there is a way we could get both. Jerome Williams. he can drive, shoot(sort of) and is an excellent rebounder/defender.
VJ: Jerome Williams isn't close to the player Mo Taylor is. Here is my deal... I don't have any real concern with transition defense because our team is young and fast. Our transition defense, in fact, has been fairly decent in the games we've won. In addition, we have guards that, by nature, go to the basket. That is why many of them end up with rebounds. If they were shooters, of course you would expect them to rotate back, but, because they penetrate first, they are under the basket anyway. I don't see that as a weakness. Now, if teams were running up 30 or 40 fast break points on us or scoring 100+ every night, I'd be more worried. As for power forward, I would like a banger but not in my starter. To me, the ideal off-the-bench banger type is someone like Dale Davis - great rebounder/defender. Not much of an offensive threat. As it stands, Mo is fine the majority of the time. If he can improve his defense, I don't care that much about the rebounding. My main issue is with his weak side defense and his propensity for getting into foul trouble. If he can learn to play defense without fouling and help the weak side defense (he CAN block shots if he rotates), it would more than make up for the lack of rebounding. I think we'll see just how well it works once Cato returns. With Cato in there as a shot-blocking presence, our guards will be able to gamble more defensively. It will also free up Mo to roam offensively and not have to focus on clogging up the lanes. ------------------ Time for a new cause.
In theory, a point guard who scores and a power forward who rebounds is preferable, because like someone said earlier, a power forward's job is to bang among the trees. Really though, I think everybody on a team should be balanced players. They should all be able to rebound on par with other players at their position. On offense, everybody should be able to hit open shots. If you can't hit an open shot, I think you're a liability on the floor. A team needs at least a couple of guys who can create their own shot and hopefully create for other players. ------------------
Jeff, We may get by during the regular season with a PF (Mo) who, a majority of the time, plays on the perimeter and doesn't rebound. The playoffs are a whole different game. You have to have a PF that bangs inside and fights for rebounds. Every possesion is important in the playoffs. Francis and Mobley will not get those rebounds in the playoffs that they are getting now. Just look at the other PF's in the west. ------------------ In order to be a success in life, you need 2 things: 1. Don't tell everything you know. [This message has been edited by BobFinn* (edited November 22, 2000).]
Bob: Maybe, however, there have been plenty of examples of rebounding guards. Everyone's beloved Kevin Johnson rebounded well and Clyde Drexler always averaged 6 rebounds or so. Jason Kidd and Gary Payton are always in the 5 to 6 range in rebounds. It is not uncommon for guards to rebound well both in the regular and post season. The fact is that Robert Horry and Mario Elie were not exactly hall of fame calliber rebounders but the combination of Hakeem, Clyde, Horry, Chucky Brown, Elie and others got us a second ring. Rebounding has NEVER been the mark of a great team. It is a misleading stat. Besides, I don't think a deep playoff run is in our near future anyway. Better to test out the talent now and develop it over time than to think we have to go out and get every great player on the market. Unless the Rockets pick up a Lamar Odom/Michael Finley, etc. type for the small forward, we will absolutely need the scoring from a power forward and seek rebounding elsewhere. ------------------ Time for a new cause.
All the guards you named have never won a championship. Drexler didn't until he hooked up with one of the best rebounders in NBA history. As for your statement that rebounding is not important, throw out regular season rebounding stats when the playoffs start. The best rebounding team in the Playoffs wins the championship 9 times out of 10. ------------------ In order to be a success in life, you need 2 things: 1. Don't tell everything you know.
The CAT knows what he is talking about. ------------------ Sometimes you gotta do the next best thing!
Ideally, I would have wanted a PF that is the complete package ie. Chris Webber. However, since that is not going to happen, having a tandem of Mo Taylor with a banger/defender off the bench would be ideal. Mo Taylor starting with someone like Jerome Williams off the bench would be the most ideal mix. This is why I am so anti-Kenny Thomas. KT is just not the banger/defender this team needs. He's gotta go, and the Rockets need a more hard nosed backup to Mo. Replacing Mo with someone like Jerome or Fortson would just not work as there would be zip scoring from the frontcourt. You need to add one of them in addition to Mo. This is the point I was trying so hard to get across this offseason. Even though this team is based around the guards you need a post guy at the PF or C spots that can add variety to the offense. If you go guard iso, guard iso, guard iso every single time, teams get smart to that in the postseason. You want to plan your team for the long run not the short run. The running game by itself does not win in the post season. The fact is that the playoffs are a brutal, ugly game and you had better be able to execute in the halfcourt. You need a frontcourt guy that you can dump the ball to and can score on a high pct basket with 50% accuracy. If you depend constantly on guard isos and things of that nature you just cannot scale the mountaintop unless you have someone incredible like Jordan that can avg 50% from the floor for his CAREER. Going into the postseason, you can have the most beautifully crafted plays you want but at some point they will break down. The really elite ball clubs just play very good defense and will zero in on your key plays. This is where the game gets ugly and you have to execute with basic basketball and be able to vary your plays. The Rockets will be able to do that I think b/c they will have enough VARIETY with Mo in the post and guards that can break down the defense. Sorry for all the ranting, but I want to once and for all get the point across in the most crystal clear way possible. Getting a guy like Jerome Williams instead of MO WILL NOT WORK LONGTERM, getting someone like him IN ADDITION TO MO WILL. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net [This message has been edited by MManal (edited November 22, 2000).]
Excellent post MManal. The only thing I disagree with is: I think Mo will be another Bullard in the playoffs. While he can hit the mid-range jumper and the 3 point shot, he is not really a low post threat. So I don't see his value at all. We already have Bullard, why have 2 players that do the same thing? As of right now, the Rockets have no low post threat. Until we get a consistent inside player, the Rockets will go nowhere in the playoffs. ------------------ In order to be a success in life, you need 2 things: 1. Don't tell everything you know. [This message has been edited by BobFinn* (edited November 22, 2000).]
BobFinn, Ive seen that posted a few times on this board that Mo has no post game. I wonder what Rockets games people are watching when they say things like that. Sure Mo has been sidelined by foul trouble which has limited his time on the court. However, when he is playing, he has shown the ability to score BOTH inside and outside. He is not a bum like KT that cant finish anytime he makes a move to get within 10 ft of the basket. Mo has shown a very nice baseline turnaround shot and on a few instances (last night being one of them) showed a nice little jump hook to the middle. Also, even when Mo Taylor faces up, makes a crossover dribble to create space in between him and his defender and shoots, his move is still from 10-12 ft away from the basket. What difference does it make if a player shoots a 10 footer facing the basket or from a turnaround situation? The question to ask is can these moves he makes enable him to hit with 50% accuracy or near that? I think they can, b/c they are all very high percentage. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
The problem is, he won't be getting that position in the playoffs. When an opponent gets physical with Mo, he tends to back off and avoid physical contact. I want to see him work his man for the high percentage shot and also draw a foul. Since he doesn't like the physical play, this will not happen. ------------------ In order to be a success in life, you need 2 things: 1. Don't tell everything you know.
