Let's assume for a moment that Cato will continue to play the way he's played recently & that center is no longer a need position. That leaves the SF spot as a need area. We've currently got Walt, Langhi, T-Mo, Rice, Torres & recently KT. If we assume that Walt is only going to be offered the mininum & will get a higher offer from another team, then we can consider him gone for next year or this year in a trade. Langhi has gotten some PT in the last couple of games & I'm assuming that he's got until the end of the year to prove himself or the Rockets will let him walk, or trade him in a package deal. T-Mo needs to work on his offensive game & will probably be back next year. Rice is the biggest question mark (imo), because of his injuries. If he can fully rehab & be ready to go full speed at the beginning of next season, then the SF spot could become a strength for this team. However, if he comes into camp & isn't fully healed, then I believe it would be safe to agree that he's done as an NBA player. Torres has shown some flashes of his potential & might be the man to take the SF position, but he's rather small for the spot & he's our backup SG. KT has shown promise at the SF spot recently, but as others have pointed out, isn't quick enough to guard the quicker SF's of the league. I'm going to assume for a minute, that either KT or Taylor will be traded if we can acquire a starting SF, with KT being the leading contender for trade bait. Our available trade bait At the moment, it looks like we'll have a lottery pick this year. But, as Nikestrad pointed out, even though we are owed the Toronto pick (lottery protected), we can't trade our's until Toronto has locked up a spot in the playoffs or we swap picks with another team. However, we could offer a future pick or some other compensation to Toronto as a condition for release of the restrictions on the pick. We've also got the draft pick obligation from Chicago for the Drew trade, which for all practical purposes, will be two high second round picks. As for players that would be available for trade, I would think that everyone, except for Francis, Griffin, & Mobley would be available for the right trade. So, let's take a look at the SF's out there that could be had for the right price. The first ones that come to mind are Odom, Rashard, Mike Miller, Richard Hamilton, Finley, & Rose, but these players already do, or will, command high trade value. So, let's take a look at the next tier of players. Ron Artest: Solid defender, improving offense, & nice 3 point shooter (this year). Pat Garrity: Nice size, good shooter, & 40% 3 point shooter. Matt Harpring: 46% from the field, 34% from 3 point range, & rebounds well. Morris Peterson: 45% from the field, 37% from 3 point range & showed significant improvement before injury. Jonathan Bender: 7'0" 219 lbs., could be moved to SF (maybe), shooting 43% from the field & 39% from 3 point range & still learning. Matt Bullard: Nothing needs to be said here, except THE BULL. Dermarr Johnson: Rudy was reportedly very high on him before the draft. He hasn't shown a lot yet, but he's improving. Steve Smith: Mentioned in a previous post by Oeilpere, sweet shooter & stays healthy. Stephen Jackson: Started out strong his rookie year & faded. Hasn't found his shooting touch since. Hidayet Turkoglu: Sweet shooter & improving game. Sacramento has a glut of SG/SF's. Gerald Wallace: Still an unknown talent, but has shown some skills. Again, Sacramento has a glut of SG/SF's. Devean George: Has shown improvement on a Laker team dominated by Shaq & Kobe, but has had injury problems. Vladimir Radmanovic: If they choose to resign Rashard, it might be worth making a run at him. Corey Maggette: Still low percentage, but improving 3 point shooter. Only 6'6" 228 lbs. though. I'm sure I've left some out, but this is the majority of them. We don't necessarily have to make a trade before the trade deadline, but could wait until the off season. Would you trade an unprotected lottery pick & whatever player/players it would take, to get one of these SF's? Remember, there's no guarantee that any rookie will ever make it in the NBA. All the players I've mentioned above have one thing going for them that no potential draft pick has, NBA experience. Any thoughts?
If we want a blockbuster player. These are the ones that available IMO Trades Jalen Rose or Al Harrington - next year one of these players is gone from Indiana. I would rahter have Harrington but Rose is also a great player. This will be a trade that will have to include draft picks... Grant Hill or Mike Miller - Miller is the shooter. Grant Hill is one of the best all around players when healthy. This will be another trade that includes KT and draft picks.. Free Agents Rashard Lewis - Perfect player for Rudy's system. 3pt Shooting, defense, rebounding. We have to try and get him in a sign and trade... Bonzi Wells - really awesome as the two guard but can play the SF. This will be another sign and trade. Cheap Free Agents Lee Nailon - Great shots but bad defense. I think for 3-4 mil Eduardo Najera - Great inside outside defense. I think for 4-5 mil. Zhizhi Wang - Great three point shot. Can play multiple positions. I think 4-5 mil.
Or how about just do the simple thing and draft Dunleavy, if available? There really is no way we will be able to trade for a top-tier player. We simply don't have quality players who can match contracts.
Has Dunleavy announced he's coming out this season? I have to agree that he would be the best player the Rockets could get. And probably the earliest he'll go is around seven. Maybe even lower if there's another couple high schoolers that come out early. Its definitely possible.
The way I see it: There's no way we get an offensive player here. We need someone who can guard permiter players, or be too good to pass up on for many different things he does. Walt will walk. Langhi is gone. T-Mo I'm sure will play more PF because it suits him more. Leaving Rice. No matter who we get, Rice will start. Because if we trade for someone and start him regardless, it's unfair to Rice, RUDY's policy says. Our options: We get a Bruce Bowen type. EXCELLENT defender. Can play minutes behind Rice because I really don't want Rice to play more than 25-28 minutes. If not then: As mentioned previously, we trade for Lamar Odom. This is in the offseason of course, so that we can clarify what are draft picks are worth. As mentioned, it should be something like: KT Moochie 1st rounder Chicago's 2 2nd rounders, if they don't bite, future 1st rounder for Odom Keyon Dooling I maintain that this deal would benefit the Clippers becaue they have a glut of SF's, solved, they lack depth upfront, solved (KT AND draft picks), they need betetr than Dooling off the bench, solved (Mooch can play solid minutes on those nights Mcinnis isn't interested in the NBA). We get: Rid of a glut of Forwards. We won't have to pick 2, 3 or 4 players in the draft which we won't have any place for. We'll get Odom, who will play more minutes than Rice, off the bench though, and I'm sure he wouldn't complain. Odom is a great passer and can take pressure off Steve at times. Also, we won't go to the 3 or 4 guard line-up. Plus, I'm sure he won't foolishly demand the MAX like Lewis, who I'm sure you agree doesn't deserve it. Anything outside of those two options, we have it.
Sane, I think your giving up too much. I'd only trade Mooch OR KT to go along with 1 draft pick, Just 1. We're gonna have a good draft pick and I'm not so inclined on trading it. I like the opportunity we have in getting a guy like Grizzard or Q. Woods. I think we're only a few pieces away from really contending. We will have more room on our roster this coming off season to add a versitle 3, maybe a good shooting PG or off-guard, and possibly a serviceable center.
kidrock-If Dunleavy came out, he'd probably be picked right around our slot, but his dad said he's not coming out. I'd love to nab him, though. Sane-Is that our first rounder or Toronto's? On the pick stuff-We can trade the Toronto pick whenever. We can trade our pick too, on draft day, after we use it, similar to this past year-we can pick someone and trade their rights. Here's how I see it: Walt and Langhi=gone Rice: will get good minutes, but I see Rudy trying to limit his minutes and maybe use him more often down the stretch. T-Mo: Will get minutes at the 3 and the 4, because of his versatility ???: Ideally someone who can be a major piece, as a young lock down defender, shooter, or ultra-versatile player Possibilities: Artest-Very intriguing, great size, lockdown defender, and has made great strides offensively. The fact we have their pick in lockdown for the next 3 years is good bait, and Kenny is comparable talent, however redundant for Chicago. Some team looking for a PF with something Chicago wants would help fit a 3 way. Devean George, Gerald Wallace, Corey Maggette-I'd like to stay away from all 3. None are good shooters, and are basically high flying athletes, no particularly stellar defense here. Stephen Jackson, Steve Smith-I can't see SA trading either one. Jackson is a marginal player anyway, and Smith is way up there in years and wants good money. Hedo Turkoglu-Dream fit. Excellent handles, Sweet shot. I just can't see Sac. trading him. Radmanovic-Everything I've heard is Seattle likes him, not on the chopping block IMO. Would seem to fit well, though. Bender/Harrington-also great fits-through the roof athleticism, sweet shots, youth..Indiana will eventually have to trade one of Rose/Bender/Harrington, but the asking price will be high. Bender and Harrington are absolute studs. Dermarr Johnson-Very intriguing IMO. This guy oozes talent. He impressed Atlanta with his 6'9'' frame, and vertical near 40 inches, to go with a very smooth stroke. OP has said he could be available, and he's certainly worth inquiring about. However, I wouldn't expect KT, an Atlanta native, to be the asking price after his scuffle with SAR. Mo Pete: I think that if Rudy/CD thought he was able to play SF, they would've drafted him. Garrity/Harpring: Decent bench players. Not worth trading talent for IMO, because you can find players like these in the late teens/20s of any draft, and will be a lot cheaper. Lee Nailon: Fits the Rudy/CD mold of player who tears up the Rockets. Great size, and has the versatility Rudy loves. After his scuffle that he and his agent had with Charlotte management in the offseason, he most likely won't be resigning. Even more intriguing of the situation are his Texas ties-he attended TCU. If trade/draft options aren't there, and Lewis asks for too much or gets better offers, Nailon is not a bad option. As for the pricier ones... Lewis: If we don't get an SF through trade or draft by free agency, go all out for Lewis. Offer full MCE, and see sign and trade options, but don't expect Seattle to comply. If Lewis will take MCE, great, if not, oh well. Rose: I'd stay away. Long term deal, seems to have trouble not being the man. His asking price will be out of our reach. Odom: Very much worth keeping an eye on. Try to entice LAC with quality cheap big men for the playoff run (KT/KW) and/or a more veteran PG (MN) and/or picks. If not, and they keep Odom till the offseason, start talking trade using the lotto pick we'll have. LAC has the talent to sustain without Odom, and most likely won't pay him. Hamilton: Don't think he'll be traded...maybe if we got the #1/rights to Jason Williams, but if that was the case, we could do better. Mike Miller: He's a perfect fit, but I couldn't understand any reasoning behind Orlando trading him...though if we won the lottery, I'm sure they'd love to have Yao Ming. Finley: Great player. But, he was the first Mav of the Cuban era to make the all-star team. He won't be traded, and if he was, the price would be STEEP.
Sane, I agree that Odom would be a real nice fit with us, but the Clippers are going to be asking for a King's ransom & will probably get it. Your proposed trade gives up too much. We don't have to have another star, just someone that can consistently hit the 3. Remember how well we played during that 20 game stretch the year before last, when Walt was hitting everything he threw up? That's all we need. Not counting the superstars, I'd like to get in this order: 1) Artest 2) Turkoglu 3) Garrity 4) Bender 5) MoPete 6) Steve Smith I think that any of those players could be had for a lot less than it would take to acquire Odom/Rashard/Rose. If price were no object, then I would rather go after Rashard over Odom.
Toronto's First rounder. Guys, you're absolutely right, we don't need another superstar. But luckily, one is available. Are we gonna pass up? "We will have more room on our roster this coming off season to add a versitle 3, maybe a good shooting PG or off-guard, and possibly a serviceable center." Cato/Willis/Collier/serviceable center Griffin/Taylor/KT Rice/T-Mo/Torres/versatile 3 Mobley/Torres/maybe off-guard OR Francis/Moochie/Tierre/good shooting PG WHERE exactly is the space on our roster? You guys are saying that they will ask for more. Then you goon to say we are offering too much. How's that? What we're giving them IS King's ransom. They get something more valuable, depth, and we get something more valuable, versatile proven talent. Don't you see? I'll make it clear: "We will have more room on our roster this coming off season to add a versitle 3, maybe a good shooting PG or off-guard, and possibly a serviceable center." Since we don't have the room: odom is a versatile 3, can play the off-guard at times, and is a big front court player. With him on the court rebounding, shotblocking, whatever. We have a big team too. For this, what do we need to do? Clear space on the roster, and that's why we're giving up depth, not quality. Clippers would really like our deal because: Kandi is leaving, and Brand has no backup. They need depth, and have a glut of SF's. Who will offer a better deal than this? It's the whole package. it's a risk we can take to build a DYNASTY. Yes, I said it, DYNASTY. Cato, Griffin, Taylor, Odom, Rice, Mobley, Francis. I think we'll start hearing phrases like "Yeah, but they only picked him up so Houston wouldn't." Big picture guys. This seaosn is lost, we won't have chemistry next year anyway with all these players returning.
Sane, Okay, a deal of KT/Moochie/Toronto's #1 pick for Odom would be an incredible steal for us. I honestly don't think that the Clippers would even consider the deal, unless the pick was our unconditional #1 for this year & that , imo, would be too much. But hey, they are the Clippers.
How about Keith Van Horn? He might be available with Richard Jefferson there. New Jersey trades: PF Keith Van Horn (15.6 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 2.2 apg in 31.2 minutes) New Jersey receives: SF Terence Morris (2.5 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 1.0 apg in 37 games) PF Kenny Thomas (13.9 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 1.9 apg in 39 games) C Kevin Willis (6.3 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 0.3 apg in 41 games) SF Walt Williams (8.7 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 1.3 apg in 35 games) Change in team outlook: +15.8 ppg, +12.1 rpg, and +2.3 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED
Hottoddie - Kenny is a PF, Eddie doesn't have the body for a 4 even though Rudy plays him there. Kenny is 6'7" which is undersized at the power forward position but plays like a PF. He lacks in size, but is 245. Eddie makes a better SF and creates match up problems running a big line up at the 3. He is 6'10" and compariable to Dirk. Can shoot the 3 and take you outside. But at 220 he can't handle the Duncan's (4 or 5), Brand or Malone's that are good size 4's. Langhi is a 2 an or a 3, he has the size to be a 3 and can create match up problems. Our problem isn't with the 3 it is with the 4 / 5. Cato doesn't always give 100 percent, we have seen better progress this year than any other year. He is following the shooters to the basket for either clean up or the bail out in which case has left him for many bail out opportunities. Mo can create shots but isn't your typical power forward that will get you 10+ boards every night. If Mo gets you 10 boards, you are thankful and know it will be a long time before you see it again. I front court is where all of our needs are. There are many more back court players available most of the time rather than front court. We have seen more pick and rolls than before since the inside out game isn't what it used to be. We still live and die by the 3. I wouldn't expect any trades to happen with the Rockets until draft day. I would like to see Clancy in a Rocket's Uniform.
Steve Phrancis, I agree with you in regards to KT being an undersized PF, but Rudy has had him filling the SF spot, because of the injuries to Walt/Rice & the ineffectiveness of Langhi/T-Mo. That's why I said he has been playing SF recently. As for Eddie, I don't remember him playing the SF spot once this year. He's been playing the 4/5 all year long. It's true that he doesn't have the size to body up or post up the bigger players yet, but neither does Garnett & he's listed at 6'11" 220 lbs.. Griffin will, most likely, put on some weight during the off season & I know for a fact that a man can put on 20-30 pounds of muscle in 3-6 months time, especially a skinny 19 year old kid. So, I wouldn't worry about his lack of size too much. By the way, Garnett & Griffin's rookie stats are really close to being identical. I disagree with you on the part about Langhi being a 2. Rudy experimented with him playing the 2 during either spring training or the summer review (I don't remember which) & from what I've heard, it didn't work out. I like his 6'11" frame at the SF spot & would like to see him blossom, because it would cause major mismatches at that spot on the offensive end. He's too quick for most PF/C's & too tall for most SF's. He's just got to produce when he's on the floor. That's why I stated that he needs to show what he can do when he's in the game. As for the center position, Cato is definitely the key. I'm one of the worst Cato haters around here, but I will give the guy credit for the way he's been playing lately. If he truely has turned the corner, as some of his supporters are claiming, then the center position is pretty solid with Willis & Collier backing Cato up. I like Collier, because he's not afraid to mix it up down low, has good hands & a nice outside shot. He just needs some consistent PT. However, if Cato reverts back to his old inconsistent self after the trade deadline passes, then you're right about the center spot being the weakest spot on the team. At the PF spot, we've got Taylor/Griffin/KT (for now), assuming that Taylor fully recovers from his injury. That makes the PF position pretty solid. Taylor might not be the best rebounder around, but his offense more than makes up for that deficiency. Griffin will eventually be the starter, but he'll have to beat Taylor out of the role. Rudy won't just give it to him, because Taylor's been injured. I still believe that a consistent spot up shooter at the 3, would make this team click like it did during that 20 game stretch 2 years ago.
Phrancis- Uh, you say Eddie is a 3, and compare him to Dirk, yet Dirk is now playing a pseudo-center for the Mavs? He can't handle them now, but he said he definitely plans to add muscle this offseason. Based on all the quotes we have from Eddie, CD, and RT, and how he's used in games it's fairly certain he'll be a 4. I'll pass on another undersized PF like Sam Clancy. I see us with about 3 priorities this offseason, and if any of them can be filled by the trade deadline, the better: a.) A fairly young, starting SF *b.) A long term center to platoon/backup with Cato (Willis=short term, Collier= possibly the solution?) c.) This is more of a personal preference, but a backup PG instead of Moochie that pushes the tempo and plays good defense. *-if Cato keeps it up, we need a guy that'll play maybe 20 MPG at most, considering small ball as well. If not, we need a guy who can play the lion's share of the C minutes.
Sane, We will have room for a versitile 3, a good shooting PG or off-guard, and a serviceable center. Reason: Langhi- probably gone after this season. Walt- more than likely gone, unless he's willing to sign for the minimum. T. Brown- more than likely gone after this season. O. Torres- will be invited back to training camp, 50/50 chance he makes the team again. T. Morris- same as Torres.
Assuming Dunleavy doesn't come out, Odom / Lewis get too pricy and we're in the 5 to 10 draft pick range, what do ya'll think about drafting Rod Grizzard or Qyntel Woods?
everything said thus far seems legit, except one thing: Najera for 4-5 mil to be our 3?????????????????? Woodlandsboy....I am withya on most of what you said, but Najera is a second round pick who will garner at the most 1-2 mil if he is lucky. Heck, Kenny Thomas only makes 1 mil and he was a first round pick averaging 8/8 over his career......Najera is a nonfactor for a team needing a 3....aside from his skills for that position!
What's wrong with Kenny Thomas at the 3? Our problem is not the small forward, its the center. If you want to make a case that our small forwards don't play defense, I'll buy that. But the same could be said for every position on our team except for the 4 when Griffin is there and center when Willis is there. I will say this, Cato has improved in that area.
