I thought I'd get a couple of hopefully thought provoking threads going by discussing old but fun topics. Basically, the point of this thread is to discuss what, if there is such a thing, is morality, and what are the implications that come with a moral, immoral, or amoral life?
I thought I used to know what morality is, but now I really don't have a clue anymore. The definitions of what is moral and what is immoral seem to be getting fuzzier and fuzzier as time marches on.
For me, there seems to be one universal truth that is the same no matter the religion or set of beliefs. I like to call it the Law of Karma, though Christians refer to it as the Golden Rule and paganists refer to a concept of "thrice good, thrice bad" (what you do will revisit you multiplied). Basically, I believe that anything you do, positive or negative, will cause that same energy to affect you. Any negative karma that you build up must be atoned for in one way or another in this life or a subsequent one. Obviously some things simply cannot be atoned in this life (murder, particularly multiple or mass murders) and as such, that karma carries on to the next life. For example, I believe that Jeffrey Dahmer will end up having to suffer his victims fates in a series of subsequent lives. This atonement in "later" (time doesn't have any real meaning except when we are in our human existance, so "later" does not necessarily refer to chronilogical time) lives could also be seen as a kind of "hell," particularly if you have built up so much negative karma that it cannot be worked out in a single lifetime, necessitating a series of lives that one must experience to work off the karmic debt.
i don't think that's what Christians refer to as, The Golden Rule. when asked what the most important commandment was, Jesus said, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, might and soul. And the second commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself." essentially, he "summarized" the ten commandments.
Are you asking what morality is or where does morality come from? Your question is not to hard to answer. Morality is basically a set or rules, guidelines, or a code of conduct that defines what is right and what is wrong and has been put forth by a society, a group, or religion. Max, what is commonly known as the "Golden Rule" is not the same as asking Christians what the most important commandment is. If you ask any Christian point blank "what's the golden rule," they'll say ""do unto others as you would have others do unto you." Go ask your preacher/priest/pastor on Sunday. Don't ask what the most important commandment is, just ask what the Golden Rule is. Or actually, ask what his answer would be if somebody asked him that because otherwise, he'll think you haven't been paying attention. Edit: Or you could just use Google.
The way I see the Golden Rule (Do unto others as you would have them do unto you), it is saying that you need to treat people the way you want ot be treated. I extrapolate from that and believe that the things you do to others will revisit you, which is the ultimate reason that you should "do unto others..." This single concept is repeated in every religion and set of beliefs that I have ever taken a look at (thrice good, thrice bad in Paganism, Karma in Buddhism, etc) and as such, I take that concept as a "universal truth."
i understand that. kind of my point. please point to me the golden rule in the Bible. i don't see it there. i think it's implicit in his second commandment, to love others as you love yourself. but i don't get some karmic sense out of that commandment...that's pretty distinct from what you do will be returned to you. there is certainly the "as you reap, so shall you sow." that's a pretty close analogy, i think. but karma says you get what you deserve...Christianity's strongest theme is that through the grace of God, you won't get what you truly deserve.
This is one of the ways I differ with you then. I believe that you DO get exactly what you deserve. If you do not atone for your transgressions in this life, you will make up that karmic debt in a future life.
Well obviously it's not called the Golden Rule in there. I think it's called that because it shows up in all religions, it's probably one of if not the oldest code of morality. All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye so to them; for this is the law and the prophets. Matthew 7:1 Confucianism- Do not do to others what you would not like yourself. Then there will be no resentment against you, either in the family or in the state. Analects 12:2 Buddhism- Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful. Udana-Varga 5,1 Hinduism- This is the sum of duty; do naught onto others what you would not have them do unto you. Mahabharata 5,1517 Islam- No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself. Sunnah Judaism- What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellowman. This is the entire Law; all the rest is commentary. Talmud, Shabbat 3id Taoism- Regard your neighbor’s gain as your gain, and your neighbor’s loss as your own loss. Tai Shang Kan Yin P’ien Zoroastrianism- That nature alone is good which refrains from doing another whatsoever is not good for itself. Dadisten-I-dinik, 94,5 http://www.teachingvalues.com/goldenrule.html
An even better analogy is in Matthew where Jesus said: "So whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them."
ummm...Matthew 7:1 doesn't say that. It says, "Do no judge, or you too will be judged." doesn't matter, though. love others as you love yourself captures the idea you're talking about. i'm not arguing that. i'm arguing that within that, there is no karmic concept evident.
your response is all wrong....it should have gone like this: [sarcasm] What are you, a lawyer???[/sarcasm]
