I did, thanks for the advice though. I also hope I don't have the misfortune of breaking immigration laws and, oh wait, these people chose to break the law, now I am just confused. Where is the bad luck that lead to their ovestaying their visa and not applying for asylum in America again? No, we should pay a fine, somewhere in the neighborhood of $200 if we are caught doing so. Calling an ambulance in a medical emergency is the better thing to do though. Oh, they broke the law for personal reasons, how could I not take that into account. Oh yeah, because there are other people in the same situation that have done the right thing. If you can't do the time (or be deported, whatever), don't do the crime. I think they are tried before they are deported typically, and just because the man's wife was threatened with death by her father, doesn't mean she would be killed. Pakistan is a big enough country that she would never have to come into contact with her father. Of course they wouldn't be facing anything if they did the right thing to begin with.
Sounds like SM would be much happier in a place like Saudi Arabia than the United States. I for one am glad we try to apply some sense of proportion and flexibility in our justice system (well, with the exception of non-violent drug laws and sexual assaults where the proportion seems to be lacking one way or the other). Immigrants will always be scapegoated one way or the other--the amazing thing is how quickly Americans do it with the surprisingly few number of those who can claim their decendents were some of the orginal Americans.
you think they're scapegoated here? try the rest of the world a recent poll came out about immigration where a really strong majority (over 60%) said they had a favorable opinion regarding immigrants in this country. that's astounding if you ask me. particularly with concerns about securing the borders.
No, agree it is not unique to America, scapegoating immigrants is an effective political strategy in most countries. Who doesn't want to feel superior, blame other peoples and groups, avoid looking closely at yourself or those like you, and protect the economic interests of yourself and those like you. It is a very common human and social thing to do--doesn't mean it is a good thing though. What is perhaps a little bit different about America is the fact how few of Americans can trace roots to original Americans--we are a nation of immigrants by and large if we have any sense of history, which IMO means we should be a little sharper about calling it out when we see immigrant scapegoating. It really depends on how the question is asked and who is responding. I think underlying sentiment is a lot less positive toward immigration and towards accepting immigrant cultures than that 60% figure indicates.
if you can find the poll online somewhere, check it out and post it here...but the reaction from the media was surprise that so many would feel so favorably about immigrants here in the US.
I am all for immigration. We have systems in place to allow people into this country. Those systems involve checking things like criminal records so we don't let murderers and thieves in with all of the good people, where we can help it. We have built in flexibility in the justice system. There are ranges of acceptable penalties for each crime, for example. What I don't believe in is b****ing about people facing the proper consequences for their actions. I guess I just believe in personal resonsibility more than most.
We invite lawlessness when we selectively prosecute certain laws. Illegal immigrants are detained and released back into the population daily because the INS is not serious about protecting the borders. We need to get serious about revamping this immigration system without regard for politics (ex. which party will win the Hispanic vote?). When the INS gets it act together, we won't have to worry about stories such as this, however...... As of now, we practically invite illegal aliens to our country by offering free medical care, free public education, and other services. We can't have it both ways- either we are serious about punishing lawbreakers or we aren't. In this case, I think our priority should be the children. How fair is it to give these kids a taste of America, let them learn English, allow them to acclimate to a Western culture, and then enforce our laws selectively? I say it is not fair. This family needs to have a special hearing to determine if the parents can be productive, tax paying, and law abiding Americans. Why put these children through hell now, when we weren't serious about enforcing our laws in the past? My hunch is that we can keep them, and gain 7 freedom loving American kids.
Yep, and if they want to live here, then they should do it legally. If I lived in England Illegally, I would also be afraid of being deported. I am glad he wanted to live here, and he was probably an ok guy, but he needs to do it legally, or else he needs to go. I have sympathy for the guy, but he knew the risk when he snuck over here. As for speeding ticket, that is ludicrous, but if I was here illegally, I would be expecting to be deported. DD
People are risking life and limb to get to our country to build a better life for their families and take jobs those here won't do at the level of wages for those jobs. Those people are risking their lives, perhaps having to come to grips they are leaving other family members behind, and you see their actions as those of flauting personal responsiblities? I am sure they would love to not be in a position where they feel they have to make such difficult, risky, even if illegal, decisions that may put themselves (and their families) in peril. It just seems your worldview and ultimate virtue of showing "personal responsibility" in upholding the letter of the law is so out of touch with the reality of most of these situations.
Have no problem with immigration, it's the foundation of our country. Now, illegal immigration, I have a problem with. I don't think you can demand any rights (other than basic humanitarian type rights) if you are not a rightful citizen/visitor of a certain country.
Who's forcing them to do so? Why America? I used to work with a bunch of illegal immigrants, they seemed to know that they are fortunate to work here. They have free will to return to their family in their home country, as far as I know.
As I said no one is forcing them--often they are making very tough decisions with potential physical risks and repercussions to their families that most of us can't comprehend. I just think it is completely out of touch with reality to think people will evaluate such actions as whether they are to the letter of the law when they are risking their lives and have these other implications most of us luckily never face. A little humility and perspective given the stakes--which are a whole lot greater than whether a court says an action met a legal definition or the like. Further, those of us who havn't knowingly or unknowingly broken a law (especially illegal actions that do not result in a direct threat or injury to another) feel free to cast the next stone.
Nice try parsing the previous response, but let's not obfuscate the issue. You referred to these asylum seekers as 'criminals'. That has a fairly negative connotation, one that I could apply to you also. I think that it's rdidculous to use that term for asylum seekers. But if you want to bunch all criminals into a generic 'they deserve what they get' group, maybe you and your teenage son should be arrested for that overdue parking citation. AGAIN, it's not the underlying laws, it's the way we enforce them, and the way we selectively enforce them.
So as long as what you are doing is dangerous, then it is okay to break the law. I think robbing a bank is difficult and risky, even if illegal and would build a better life for me and my family, but that doesn't make it okay. No one is telling these people not to come, they even came legally by getting a visa, but they need to also do what they can to STAY legally, not just hang around after their visa is expired. My "virtue of showing 'personal responsibility'" has nothing to do with "upholding the letter of the law". I am saying that the guy knew what he did was illegal, that there were consequences if he got caught, and now is crying aboput having to face the music. He needs to take responsibility for his own actions, throw himself on the mercy of the courts, and abide by their decision without b****ing and moaning.
I agree, lets not oops to late. Whoa, slow down. I didn't say asylum seeker = criminal. There are plenty of people who seek asylum by going through proper channels, not by first becoming illegal aliens. If he wanted to seek asylum in Canada before his visa expired, the INS would never have detained him. Nice try obfuscating the issue though. I have neither an overdue parking citation, nor a teenage son, so thats out. I have also never commited an offense punishable by imprisonment. Sorry to disappoint you, but I mean what I say when I talk about personal responsibility. If I had commited such a crime and been convicted, I would accept whatever punishment I earned. Unfortunately, we were attacked by terrorists. The terrorists who attacked and are still threatening to again attack us were predominantly Muslim, Arab, and trained in Afghanistan, many fleeing into Pakistan. Since the INS does not have the resources to track down every illegal immigrant at the same time, I am glad the prioritized the most threatening groups first. Even with all the money we spend on the war on drugs, they didn't start of with the Mexican immigrants (where the most drugs come from.) While you may not agree that we should profile criminals, to not do so is to invite disaster. This isn't like a driving while black arrest either. These people are actually criminals, and I doubt you would b**** about it less if all the other illegal immigrants were receiving the same treatment.
I agree to an extent, but given the majority of cases similar to this one, I doubt there will ever be a hearing. About entitlements for illegals, I don't think that they're necessarily sneaking in for a free ride. Most of them come with practically nothing and work in menial jobs no middle class person would stoop to work in. They do pour in millions to our economy and our infrastructure, so indirectly they do deserve some coverage. Of course, no one wants that privelege to be abused, but if they're here working on our land and helping our economy, then it is the human thing to do to support these people with base entitlements, even if they aren't legal immigrants. If they're caught, then they should be deported because it is the law. Selectively targeting groups is another matter...
It is hard to argue that this case, and many others like it, don't deserve compassion. When I think of how this would make ME feel if it were my family, I feel sick. However, spare a thought for the people who are following the legal channels in seeking to immigrate, and are in proven need of assylum. Immigration laws and procedures are in place for a reason, and part of their purpose is to prioritize high needs cases. When people immigrate illegally, they circumvent the process, clog the system, and prevent or delay people who may be in greater need.
