Not excusing Vince at ALL. He's an adult and he's culpable. Its not Jeff Fisher's job to baby people and offer aromatherapy, its his job is to win games and crush skulls. But please, how many of those types are QBS, the featured faces of the franchise? Chad Ochocinco, Randy Moss act like spoiled divas. Albert Haynesworth, etc. Don't you think it'd be different if they were actual QBs? Slightly different set of expectations there. Would love to see Terrell Owens trying to lead a team from the QB position. (An aside on the upbringing thing: I'm getting into really sensitive sissified stuff here admittedly, when we're talking about a MAN'S game. Its not even much to do with football. Just me personally, either we have to start telling women SHAPE up in the same direct way, or (EARLY in life, its too late in adulthood) to "even" things out maybe we should be as supportive to guys needs in that situation.)
I don't back Vince Young's actions. He went too far with his displeasure over the situation. He deserves reprimands. Fisher might partly responsible but he played the game right. Just how it goes. Will go as far to say you CAN understand where Young is coming from at least. Way back when I played sports the #1 thing I needed from the coach was belief in my ability. When I got that belief and support, I'd run through the wall for coach. When I saw he/they were playing politics and acting iffy, picking favorites when I knew I was better than "his" guys, and sensed he was waiting on is chances to show me up for "attitude issues", I didnt let it spill over into my teammates but hell YEAH I got upset. A person can only get help when they WANT help or accept being helped. So if a person isnt receptive to help, then yeah you have no choice but allow them to carry on in their way But agree, on those OBVIOUS players that are on the unstable end, not the T-Macs or the Ricky Williams types but the truly unstable, I'm sure sports people have many counselors and therapists on hand and dont just leave athletes out in the cold but some people you can't treat as an asset without a pulse, it might be wise to maintain them.
Based on the Titans fan boards I partake in, it appears about 40% want Fisher and Young gone. About 30% just want young gone, and about 30% want just fisher gone. The fans are sick of Young's immaturity, but are fed up more with Fishers lies and failure to lead the Titans to more than a few playoff wins over 15+ years. Texans fans can dream of Fisher coaching them, but I dont think Bud lets him go that easily, and I think if he does leave, it will be to dallas.
I'm not sure Fisher would want to go to another owner-GM wannabe. Houston gives him a chance to stick it to Bud and Vince.
Houston has more talent than Dallas IMO, and that is looking at it objectively. Not going to say he wouldn't choose Dallas, but he won't overlook the Houston job either... we have a great core group and a ****ty defense that will improve with new personnel. I also think he wouldn't mind coming back to Houston.
Isn't it funny to hear Fisher talk about how things are supposed to stay in the locker room, yet he is always out there in the media talking about things? The dude has a lot of folks hoodwinked...for sure. DD
"Fisher has a worse winning percentage than Wade Phillips, and he will win a playoff game once every 3.4 years. Minus the Music-City-Miracle in 1999, and he wins a playoff game once in every 8.5 years."
http://footballproslive.com/content...ments-on-Vince-Young-and-team-s-losing-streak After the Vince Young incident in Tennessee this past Sunday that included headlines about the Titans quarterback being placed on injured reserve, and coach Jeff Fisher's declaration that Young wouldn't start regardless, I had an opportunity to talk with Young over the phone briefly. That conversation was off-the-record. However, my phone interview with his teammate CB Cortland Finnegan was not. Finnegan took some time on his day off Tuesday to talk about the circumstances surrounding losing Young for the season, the coverage of the Young/Fisher incident in the media, the Titans future with rookie quarterback Rusty Smith, and his faith in overcoming the team's current losing streak. Here is the Q&A from our phone interview earlier today. Note: This was before news broke about the Titans reportedly asking Young to leave the team facility on Monday. The team has since denied the characterization of that particular story. THE VINCE YOUNG SITUATION: On understanding QB Vince Young both as a man and a teammate: You can't speak for every man. In this aspect, I know as a competitor and a winner, every guy wants to play football. Regardless of whether you're banged up or hurt you want to go back into the game. For whatever reason coach (Jeff Fisher) went with (rookie QB) Rusty (Smith), and that is what we have to live with. We have enough worries on defense to be worried about how the offense is getting down. However, when the game is all said and done, you're really concerned about your teammates. On Vince Young's desire to get back into the game against the Redskins after tearing the flexor tendon in his right thumb: If you're a competitor and a winner, and you love what you are doing, you want to be out there no matter what. However, that does not always correlate to being helpful for the team. I think when you try to distinguish between those two things, and get down to the meat of it, you have to ask yourself which one weighs out more? Is it your pride? Do you put that aside, or do you do it for the team and not go in (the game)? That's one of those things when you have coaches that can delegate that responsibility, I think they ultimately make the right decision for the team. On whether the questions about Young's overall maturity level is a fair discussion: You know what I think it is unfair. The quarterback position itself is so scrutinized anyways. You know when you are in the limelight, and you are doing things, people want to magnify it so much. In the media it is about selling papers, magazines, and the negativity that comes around it. But there is so much positive that goes on that isn't talked about and goes unseen that Vince especially has brought to the Nashville area, the state of Texas, and to the kids. So that kind of outweighs that kind of stuff. I would like to see more of that in the public eye brought up in a time like this--especially with everything going on--just to show he is a team captain, he is our leader, and we do stand behind him. On specifically what Finnegan feels is "unfair" in regards to the current discussion and coverage on Young: I think the whole way the media handles it. For example, like when they try to blow up the whole thing about him throwing the jersey into the stadium. I feel like (Young) is mature. I feel like he was mature from when he was thrown into the fire early (in his career). You talk about coming from college and a program like Texas, then being (Offensive) Rookie of the Year, he was definitely maturing on the go. That is something he will continue to do on the go. On whether Finnegan's feelings of "unfair" media coverage, and the maturity discussion on Young, includes additional reports of Young's confrontation with coach Fisher and teammate Michael Griffin after the game: I really don't know about any of that. I couldn't get into that. I am talking more about what I have seen because we were drafted together, and in the five years overall. His leadership, it has all been there over time. However, all that extra, I can't get into that. On whether Finnegan has had an opportunity to talk to Young since the incident on Sunday: No. We haven't talked, but we've texted about just being positive. I always want to be positive because when a guy goes on injured reserve, something that is season-ending is not what anybody wants. I have just tried to be positive about getting healthy. I let him know that I am praying for him and thinking about him in that aspect. I haven't really got into all that other stuff. It doesn't really matter. I just want him to recover well, and get back to what he does, and do it well. On whether Finnegan feels like the move to put Young on injured reserve was done in part to quell the drama surrounding the team: If Fisher says that's the reason why Young is on injured reserve, then I am rolling with that. I'm definitely rolling. I can't take any sides. I really don't know anything more. If our coach believes in it, and that is the best move for the team, and that that's best for V.Y., then definitely yes it is the right move. I think you would know better than I would. Like I said there is enough worries on defense to worry about the minor things. On predicting Young's future after this season with the Titans. It's such a business now, and it is more so than it has ever been. So I don't know. I don't think anybody knows the answer with the collective bargaining agreement (CBA) being the way it is. When you put a possible lockout in the mix who knows. The more I get into this NFLPA and that situation the lockout seems more prevalent. We are talking about guys' healthcare. On the team's confidence in Rusty Smith with Smith ultimately being a rookie: He is still a rookie. You're right. But I think that he is so ready. He was in there early. He's always been there early. He knows where to go with the football to make any throw on the football field. We've just seen that having to go against him in one-on-ones and seven-on-sevens. So, that's nothing new. I think when he gets a grasp for it, and when the game starts to slow down, he'll be fine. I have every confidence in the world in him. He's a late-round draft pick from a small school so I got to roll with him. Nonetheless, he is a teammate and a family member so I support him. On whether the Titans can specifically win with Smith at QB: Well we are one game out of first place in the AFC (South) race. You win out you win the division. It's pretty much a black and white situation in front of our face. You know when coach Fisher makes a decision believe it or not I stand behind it. I'm totally behind it. He employed me from day one. I stand behind anything he's ever been about because that is how much respect I have for him. So if he starts Rusty because he feels it's in the best interest of the team, then I'm rolling. On whether Fisher's decisions regarding Young and Smith will cause a split in the locker room or any lingering negativity: No. It's the 24-hour rule with us after we suffer a loss. In the past, as a team we've always kept things within the team. Usually if there are any team issues we clear them up pretty fast. As far as negativity, no. We have a game on Sunday. The Texans don't care what is going on in the Titans locker room at all. We know that as men and as family members, so I think we can keep pushing on. I think we need to clean up what we need to clean up and move on-and that goes for any issue. THE TEAM'S CURRENT LOSING STREAK: On the problems on defense: The problem is we haven't gotten off the field on third down. I think that has been our Achilles heel. If we can get back to just getting off the field on third down, and executing on third down no matter the yardage, then we will get back on track. We are not in the yardage business. We are in the points business. If we can limit points it won't matter what our offense does. Overtime penalties vs. Redskins: When you talk about (OLB) Will (Witherspoon) getting a 15-yard penalty there, it's just blitzes. You don't tell a guy when you blitz, "Make sure you don't swipe at the ball." We are a physical football team, and that allows for personal fouls. Coach doesn't coach that. He doesn't coach that or teach that. It's football. You wish the game didn't come down to that but it did. I just hope the next time we are in that situation we are smarter.
Wade Phillips has only won 2 playoff games (which came 10 years apart from one another) in 11 years as a head coach. Fisher has won 4 in 15 years. Playing the "if" game is lame. Not many active coaches as experienced/tenured as Wade have a better winning percentage than he does. By ALL means though, keep wishing for Fish to go. It'd be an early Christmas present for all of us.
If you think Jeff Fisher will be savior for the Texans and their defense, you might want to look at the stats more. I dont think Fisher will leave, and if he does, he won't go to the Texans. But lets take a look at the Titans defense history and their draft picks. Fisher has had two good defenses since 2004. I wont take credit for the following post, but it has very good points. "2004: 30th ranked in total defense, 27th scoring 2005: 19th ranked in total defense, 29th scoring 2006: 32nd ranked in total defense, 31st scoring 2007: 5th ranked in total defense, 8th scoring 2008: 7th ranked in total defense, 2nd scoring 2009: 28th ranked in total defense, 28th scoring 2010: 24th ranked in total defense, 8th scoring (though its been trending up, largely due to TE's) 1st Round draft picks since 2000 2000: Keith Bullock, LB 2001: Andre Dyson, DB 2002: Albert Haynesworth, DT 2003: Andre Woolfolk, DB 2004: Ben Troupe, TE 2005: Pacman, DB 2006: Vince Young, QB 2007: Michael Griffin, DB 2008: Chris Johnson, RB 2009: Kenny Britt, WR 2010: Derrick Morgan, DE 7 1st round picks over the last 11 years were used on defense, but since 2004 (when you'd think all that defensive talent might start adding up) the Titans have finished in the top half of the league defenses exactly twice. The other years they weren't even mediocre, they were just bad. I'm not sure defense is really what you want Fisher building a team around. Vince's two turn around years, 2006 and 2009, happened despite having two of the worst defenses the titans have fielded since 2004. Good thing the Titans were winning despite Vince Young. I find it hilarious that Vince is being touted as some kind of horrible person for wanting to play football by the "experts" (exactly what he was criticized for NOT wanting to do just last week). It has been suggested by the talking heads that Michael Vick, convicted felon, is the better role model. Ah I can see in a league where the QB heroes are 1) Vick, Felon, 2) Big Ben, Rapist, 3) Brett Favre, unfaithful pervert, that Vince Young of all people would be the bad guy. The same Vince Young that has taken upon himself to help raise two kids that aren't his. Seriously, these are the talking heads, the experts, that people want to listen to? To the guys that have their priorities so out of whack that a fricking felon is the toast of the town? Are you kidding me? The NFL is full of immature divas, gangsters, maybe even a murder or two. Vince isn't one of them. An immature diva doesn't volunteer to help raise kids that aren't his own. What is your definition of truly pathetic? How about 5-11? How about losing by double digits 8 times? How about losing by 20+ points 3 times? 2004 ring a bell? How about 4-12? Losing by double digits 6 times? Losing by 20+ points 4 times? 2005. 2006 and 2009 both seemed like they started like pretty pathetic teams. I don't know, maybe we just have different definitions of pathetic. I also think you're pretty generous with your definition of mediocre."
Whether or not he comes here is pretty much irrelevant since Kubiak isn't going anywhere (grumble). I just want him gone from the AFC South.
Him talking is his own choice, he could say "I am not going to address that, it is a team/family matter" People are blasting Vince, but you don't see him out there chatting it up about what happened. Fisher has so many people hoodwinked and fooled, he has been a media darling his entire career. Is he a good coach, yes he is.....is he a great coach...no, he isn't. DD
I'm not defending Young walking out on the team, but I do think people are being a little one sided. dude got benched in that Pittsburgh game, after coming in for Kerry last season and the team doing much better. I don't know what happened sunday, but fisher hasn't handled this well either imo. he's taken every chance to bench young and young has been having a fairly good season. I can understand him being frustrated, he has to handle it better, but i can't blame him for at least being frustrated
Haven't read through all of this, but I did see this on HornFans. It does suggest there is something to the whole Fisher-Young dynamic that's not really clear. It fits the pattern of people feeling Fisher has always preferred Collins at QB. Fisher, after the 1st game with Moss (Collins at QB): Coach Jeff Fisher admitted there were some missed opportunities with the veteran receiver, who was targeted only four times and caught one pass for 26 yards, but he vowed to get him more involved as the Titans (5-4) try to stay afloat in a tight AFC playoff race. "As you look at the game, there's going to be different options," Fisher said. "But unless you've stood under center and dropped back in the pocket and tried to look down the field … until you've done that, be careful about criticizing quarterbacks because it is not an easy thing to do. "Randy has been here just a week, OK? We have a lot of stuff we will sift through and sort through and try to create more opportunities for him.'' Fisher, after the 2nd game with Moss (Young at QB): As it turns out, Young may have been partly to blame for Moss' lack of use on Sunday, as his only throw to the star receiver sailed several feet over Moss' head for a third-down incompletion in the end zone. It was the only time Young even looked Moss' way in nearly three quarters of play before his thumb injury. “There were some reads and progressions that were incorrect,” Titans coach Jeff Fisher said of why Moss was not targeted more often on Sunday. Before Young exited the game, television cameras caught a conversation between Moss and Young on the Titans' bench that seemed to have the receiver at least imploring the quarterback to look for him. Fisher went on to say that Moss was open several times Sunday, but that the Titans did not get him the football. “He had some opportunities yesterday. He was open,” Fisher said. “He had an opportunity for one touchdown pass, and had an opportunity to keep a couple of drives alive, but the ball wasn't delivered to him.”
To be fair, the first part he was fielding a question on why the guy who had been there for just a week wasn't targeted more. Though how much of that involved the mention of QB critics is unclear. He made no mention of Moss being open or not, so it may be a situation of Collins not forcing the ball so don't get on him for that. Of course, the only way to know for sure is for Collins to be out there when Moss is wide open and not throw him or overthrow him. Different on field circumstances for both QBs. Still, Fisher could have handled it better. Don't know the context of these quotes but I hear Gary Kubiak has some great cliches for times like this.
Certainly - and I don't doubt that Vince probably made some mistakes there. But it's just interesting that his defense of Collins was "don't criticize if you haven't been there because it's hard to look down the field and see everything" but then with Vince, he's happy to criticize. This does go further back too. Anytime Collins was put in or given the starting job, Fisher's reasoning was always "he gives us the best chance to win". When Vince was given the job or put in, it always was "we felt it was time for a change". There's definitely lack of confidence and trust between Fisher & Vince. And it may very well be deserved - I'm not suggesting Fisher's wrong in his evaluation. But that relationship is dysfunctional on both sides.
