Me and a friend were having a discussion a while back about the Vietnam War. It started by him saying that the U.S. has never suffered a defeat in war before. I told him that I believe that we lost the war in Vietnam. He said that since nobody declared war that it was actually not a war just a "conflict". Well I said that was one of the costliest, bloodiest, deadliest contests I've ever heard of. He said that well that is what it was a conflict and not a war. I said, hey it was a war and we lost. Now I seriously believe that nobody actually wins a war because the excessive losses do not make up for the minimal, if any, gains but I do think the U.S. was defeated in Vietnam, what about you?
I believe we lost the military conflict in Viet Nam for two reasons: 1. We were not prepared to fight to win. We were only seeking a stalemate since victory would have required a direct confrontation with the USSR and Red China. 2.We underestimated the commitment of the North Vietnamese people. They had been in confrontation with what they viewed as their occupiers for hundreds of years and were fully prepared to resist for a hundred more years. We are however, winning the peace! If our goal was to provide the people of Viet Nam with an equitable government and economic development, our sucesses as the Great Consumer has far exceeded our success as the the World's Policeman. You can never assume how a different past would play out so I won't second guess JFK, LBJ, and RMN; certainly in the perspective of their time the spector of a population enslaved by communist masters had some validity. But we should certainly try to learn what lessons we can. One might be that collective governments (not more singular dictatorships) probably have the greater good of their people in mind though we may disagree with their methods. And two, the individual is the most elementary definition of human motivation. In the end individual people will seek what is best for themselves and their families. And the benefits of consumerism, better food, more comfortable housing , better entertainment etc. as found in the US economic/governmtal system is an attractive choice.
i think that we went in for the wrong reasons, not to mention the public was baited with lies to support the war in the beginning. The Gulf of Tonkin incident where we initiated conflict but played it out as if we were attacked to start the war is one of the most embarassing facts of american history. our country wanted post-colonial nations to have self determination and freedom. However, during the cold war, we didnt want those nationalistic leaders to be communist. and honestly, which kind of ideology works best for countries just coming out of being a colonial peasant land? and we expected the wealthy few who bathed in riches during colonialism to step up and rule the upset masses? just an ugly, ugly situation to stick our heads in and in the short term, it wasnt worth it. i agree with gene that we are winning the peace, but it doesnt mean that what we did to get it was worth it. and for lil pun's debate, it was not an official war because it wasnt declared by congress. But since when in the history of the world has a conflict as large as that, not been called a war just because some higher ups dont want to tarnish their country's record of being a peace loving country? if you have mass numbers of soldiers, fighting against each other, thats a war. how does it make sense that a conflict can lose more lives than past wars? and in addition, it has never been referred to in history classes as the Vietnam conflict Did we lose? what were the criteria for victory? the criteria was to prevent the north from taking over the south and to prevent communism from spreading to other parts of southeast asia. FAILED. it took our countries 30 years to repair the damage, now we can go to hanoi and have their delicious french bagguette sandwiches and excellent coffee ( I highly reccomend). We lost that war pertaining to our losses, the success of their military to make our troops withdraw and the fact that vietnam and the nations surrounding it turned communist after we left. if you want to argue further, we also lost the korean war, pertaining to our losses and failed criteria. we lost that war, fair and square, considering also that we cheated going into it with unreasonable expectations. id like to say we are learning from our mistakes, but that is arguable.
lil pun, your friend's got a point. a war is a war. a police action is a police action. if i remember correct, korea was never officially a war either. even though vietnam was a war in all but name, it still remains a fact that congress never officially declared. so if your friend was bent on basing his claim on semantics, i can see his case. but really it's an argument for argument's sake only.
