http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/stati...t=0&season=2005&seasontype=2&avg=none&pos=all This is definately a stat that i dont miss from Francis. Its easier to stomach a loss where your shots are just not falling than to lose a game due to turnovers. I think last year we lead the league in turnovers per game and we have made a big improvement this year. gotta give props to Dawson on these midseason trades.
I think we've all known about this Francis stat (weakness) for a few years now. His fans don't think it's a big deal because he just wants to win (like there are guys in the NBA that DON'T want to win). When you're turnover prone, monopolize the ball, can't get guys easy shots on a consistent basis, and are getting paid the MAX to do it, you aren't going to be a great team. But hey, he sure looks good when he fastbreaks and dunks...
so you do not like Iverson?? because you just described him. (i do not like Iverson) I do not think this is such an interesting stat, because this is not new. everybody has known this for years. like we also know he is one of the best rebounding Guards. And like we know Shaq cannot make free throws. And Yao is not a very good rebounder. About the fact that there are nba players who do not want to win: there is wanting to win and wanting to win. Did Jordan want to win? Yes very much, he had a drive bigger then most players i have seen. Some people want to win but do not have that drive, Francis does have such a drive. He has his mistakes, but he is a very good player. To bad alot of fans of his old team cannot see that.
I wouldnt want Iverson on the Rockets team him and francis are of the same mold. Both shoot in the low fg % hight turnover rates and do not make their team better(playoff success). I would much rather have Brevin Knight over Iverson.
Francis' "old" fans see his drive. We just think his bad areas negate that drive in the overall equation when he needs the ball as much as he does. I have to say that Iverson makes his teammates better than Steve dose. Iverson has done more with a lesser supporting cast. Iverson can score off picks and in an offense where he doesn't have the ball the whole time (though he often does...just saying he also can relegate to others and score in other ways sometimes). Iverson has shown an ability to play point this year better than Steve did. At least, he can set up his teammates better than Steve could run an offense. Last, Iverson just has more basketball smarts. Doesn't jump in the air without knowing what to do. When he makes passes, they're to the right players. Can run a 2 on 1 break without turning it over. etc. Oh, better defender too, by far.
Nonetheless he dishes out 7 assists per game, #9 in the league. Meanwhile good-passer-and-great-court-vision-possessor Yao Ming owns an impressive assist-to-turnover ratio of 0.26, dead last in the league.
You can't really compare Assists/TO ratios from PG to C. PGs like Francis gets to handle the ball all the time. It's his job to set up the players around him by passing to the right players. Centers dish it out where the ball usually gets turned around to find the open guy. Also, TOs are bound to happen with inside players due to the number of hands, bodies near by. People converge to the middle, but PGs making too many turnovers could usually only mean one thing, bad ball handling or bad passing accuracy. Well, that and poor basketball IQ in knowing how defenders will react to a telapathed pass.
You're right. Of course if you compare SF's rebounding stats to Yao's, it's shows how soft Yao is since rebounding is all about "want to".
The difference b/t the #1 and #50 guys on that list is 1.8 TOs per 48 minutes. I would imagine this translates into 2 points for the opponent a game, max. How is that stat significant?
Nevertheless, u gotta agree that while we miss Francis and Jim Jacson dearly, we DONT miss their turnover habbits.......The Francis kickball, and JJ just losing the ball carelessly to Kobe in the Lakers series probably cost us the series.......
We are not saying that he's not a good player. What we are saying is that his TO are detrimental to the team more so than his points, rebounds or steals are beneficial. It would be one thing if he was a pure PG, like Kidd that passed the ball to other players and only took 14 shots per game. Then, you could say, nice rebounding, nice steals, nice passing. He would get others involved and get like 9 assisst per game. We can overlook your high TO rate because at least you make up for it by not hogging the ball AND by getting others involved; evident by your hight assist. But that's not what Francis does. He's the focus of the team. He takes most of the shots. He's not playing a PG role, but more a shooting guard role that gets around 21 ppg. Not 30ppg like Iverson or Kobe. So, although his rebounds, steals and points help the team. The fact that he has the ball in his hands most of the time negates a lot of the benifts because the turnovers. Sure, he tries to get other involved. But a lot of thsoe passes become turnovers. So, he's in a catch-22. He's just not good at it. And any star player that has the ball in his hands most of the time will never unify his team into a single unilt if he always plays as a individual player, playing with four other teammates. Note: Getting steals and rebounds are benifts. You either get them or not. But NOT getting them doesn't really hurt the team. That player is actually creating possitives where there were none in the first place. But when you create negatives where there were none in the first place (turnovers)....that's just bad no matter how you look at it. At least make up for it by getting high assist. That's just the way it is with Francis. You have to take the whole package. If you want his 21/6.5/6. You have to take his 3.7 with it? I ask, why? The best situation for a PG is where someone gets 9 ast per game and only 2.5 To per game. Hell, even 5.5 apg and 2.5 is better! That's a very efficent passing pg guard. Kobe, gets high TO too. But he tries to make up for it by scoring 27+ per game. This is why I prefere TMac to Kobe. TMac has been around 2.8 TO his whole carrer, while still getting around 5.5 assist.
then let's compare a/t ratio C to C: name APG TPG Ratio ---------------------- Jabbar 3.6 1.62 2.22 Robinson 2.5 2.45 1.02 shaq 2.8 2.89 0.97 Dream 2.5 2.96 0.84 Ewing 1.9 2.99 0.64 Yao 0.7 2.88 0.26 ---------------------- BTW, I just checked the overall stats, the honor of the worst goes to Deke Mutombo. He is having an a/t ratio of 0.09. Last 50 Players (Assist/To Ratio)
i agree with you. i know it is bad for the team that steve has so many turnovers. I also know he is not a pure point guard. i think T-mac is a much better player. All i think is that he is a good player. and he has a great heart on the court. i think you will agree with me on that. i think the only differance between our opinions is that i think francis does make his teammates better.
Seriously. Or for mods to start moving all the Francis threads to the NBA forum. They've gotten really, really old.
