I really believe tmac is the most unselfess big time player (kobe, AI, lebron, ect) in the NBA. I still remember when he first came here and stepped in line behind Yao early in the season. We were complaining that he didnt shoot enough! what a difference that was from the francis and mobley days anyways i could see that happening
The thing about TMac is he takes all the garbage. That's why his efficiency numbers are always lower than those other guys. McGrady is the dude that takes all the junk shots when the shot clock winds down to 0 and takes all the shots to end the quarters. And all the time he gives up all the easy shots like on the break when he could nail it down himself, he'll give it up to reward a teammate. If Mcgrady just wanted to top the efficiency charts, he could do it easily. But he cares about winning and making his teammates better.
don't mean to argue, and I agree somewhat with what your are saying about selfish/unselfish crap...but the most unselfish big time player is the 2 time reigning MVP. are you OK with me saying that?
“Sounds more like a personal storyline gone wild”. Aren’t you making a pretty big assumption there. I respect you HP so I won’t go off on that comment but I consider it an insult. As many know here I have never held back my opinion on JVG, Tmac or any Rocket. But this thread was not created as some personal storyline gone wiild about them. Any suggestion towards that is just wrong. I understand Tmac’s talents and past role as being the number 1 goto guy on the team. But that was before Yao became the most dominant player in the NBA. I also understand you can't take too much from a couple of preseason games, but they have only played a dozen or so games after Yao’s toe surgery and there roles weren’t completely defined back then and this team has been completely revamped. So to question there ability to adjust and to question how Van Gundy will implement that, never implying he can’t is not so farfetched of an idea. And certainly not a personal storyline gone wild. History has shown that almost all championship teams are built around big men. Of course there are exceptions. But the Hakeem’s Kareems Russells and Shaqs have certainly won there fair share. So for me to suggest that the focal point of the offense may now be diverted to Yao is not so wild. Certainly one could disagree and Blue Chip makes a very intelligent argument that is no longer the case. My question of concern was working them both in while still preserving the effective movement of the ball as seen by the second unit the last couple of games. Again I never suggested it can’t be done or that Van Gundy couldn’t do it. If anything I implied he has shown an ability to do it and only questioned how. And that he would have his hands full. That’s all. Many have posted ideas on the how. Nero stated it would work the same way it did when Clyde was here. A pick your poison kind of offense. Easy as well as yourself Heypartner brought up that T-Mac is the best passer for Yao. You also added that Tmac proved in the Dallas playoff series that "the TMac/Yao pnr destroyed Dallas". Easy added that a TMac-Yao pick-n-roll with good shooters around “will be so unstoppable”. (edited for Heypartner) Blue Chip stated this would be a superstar oriented offense not team oriented with Tmac being the focal point. He brought his theory that the game has changed, “If Tracy raises his fg% to 45% or above, that is possibly a better threat than Yao shooting 55% from the floor...because you have to add in the fact that Tracy is taking team "bail out shots" and 3’s… and he may be on to something. I might even agree with him except that players who can play down low like Yao and shoot as efficiently and hit free throws are as rare as they come and IMO Yao is the exception to Blue Chips theory. Oh by the way Blue Chip I never sidestepped the issue of whether Yao or Tmac should be the focal point of the offense. If you had been here longer you would know that. I always thought coming into this season that Yao should be, albeit a near even mixture. Back to other posters… Van Gundier suggested Tmac would have to take a backseat when Yao was going hard to the low post. He also brought up his TS% and how “TMac's "special power" is helping other players score more efficiently” and that TMAC would defer to the open shooters unless the opposing team decided to stick to Novak, Head, Snyder, etc and dare TMac to beat them single handedly. And that’s exactly what I meant by a more team oriented offense. That all players in most cases would defer to the open players with the easiest shots. Not always but mostly. As opposed to Blue chips Superstar offense. Of course as Raving Lunatic suggests “each seems to thrive when the offense is geared to their specific skills. Certainly plays should be run specifically for them but the concept being if its not there defer to the open man. As you can see the opinions on this subject run rampant and that was the whole point of this thread. To start a discussion on how Van Gundy would run an offense with 2 superstars and the new shooters. Contribute to the discussion or don’t but either way I am still of the belief that it will be a challenge for Mr. Van Gundy or any coach for that matter to work both superstars into the offense and still keep the smooth flowing distribution going around the horn that defers to the open shooters. Many have suggested it’s a non issue but I can assure you Van Gundy spends at least some of his time going over it and doesn’t consider it a non issue as some on this board suggest.
that's a fantastic summary of this excellent five * thread. But you didn't mention my input anywhere in your summary. I consider that an insult. cheers OMR. it's was an attempt at a joke and an attempt to get a laugh outta of a newbie or two who are refreshing new posters, and i can see how it smelled like an insult. I respect your posts too much, and rely on you starting conversations too much to actually try to insult you, especially since we are both fans from the same ccnet October. now, can you amend your summary to add in my input.
One suggestion to the dilemma Old Man Rock proposes is to have T-Mac be the primary option at the beginning and end of possessions. This goes back to T-Mac being a point gaurd option where he would bring the ball up the court. If he has a mismatch, he can take advantage early. Otherwise, he can go down to Yao and have a normal offensive set, where Yao or an open shooter can take a high-percentage shot. If nothing has happened with about 6 seconda left, it goes back to T-Mac, who can finish. I'll expound later.
The non-issue is Tracy and Yao working well together. This is a COMPLETE non-issue. The concept of a team-oriented offense vs. a superstar-oriented offense merits discussion. First of all, they aren't mutually exclusive. Defenses will dictate some of it. Our initial focus most times will be getting the ball to Yao or Tracy. If defenses don't double, we destroy them. If defenses decide to focus on the stars, they will give the ball up without hesitation instead of forcing the issue. It is then up to our role players to punish defenses for leaving them open. Am I missing something? Is it more complicated than that?
another question is: when yao posts up, what should other players do? wesley, howard ... those guys most times just stood there
Tmac will be the number one option. Heres why. I have been reading and appreciating the theorys and ideas of our posters on what we can and will do and what the defenses will be taking away or attempting to. Most all of the posts are valid even if they have opposing ideas on who or why or what ever. "Pick your Poison" is the most descriptive idea concerning how we will play offense (I hope). The problem most people have is they tend to look at the Poison and why or how we will use it. The magic is in the PICKER not the Poison. This is where Tmac comes in. On this Rockets team there is only one player that I trust atm to be the Picker. One player on the court needs to be able to decide what our offense needs to be, whether that is inside out, outside in, fast breaking or whatever we need a court leader to make those decisions and that will not be Yao. You have to have a true star to do this and that star has to know when to feed the team and when to be the man and I think Tman can do this, if not we are a court general away from championship caliber. I am very excited to see if we got lucky with KillBill and he can be our backup general because as it stands we now without Tmac we don't have one. Alston is a good point guard and I believe he can be effective playing any of the styles mentioned I just don't think he will ever be able to "Pick th Poison."
Posts like these just reinforced why we are without a doubt the top dog in the hoops message board business!
^^Great post. That is exactly what I meant when I said: In my initial post. And also in this article right on Clutchfans: http://www.clutchfans.net/news/1363/van_gundy_sees_roster_improvement/ Just going off what I "believe" is the case... ...i'm viewing Tracy to be the guy on the floor who decides what our offense will do and how the poison will be "picked". Just like those 80s Lakers...Kareem and his hookshot was "the best offense you can have in the NBA"...but when the going got tough, Magic was the player Pat Riley called upon to deliver...The ability to chose the options was 'the first option'.
/aggrees totally Hakeem at the end of his career could do it from the post and I think that more than any other skill he posessed places him as the top center of all time. Other great centers had the offense run through them, with Hakeem the offense was run by him.
I agree with OMR. The offense should primarily run through Yao in the half court set. T-mac can run the set when there is a fast break, or when the ball is passed back out after the post has been first established. However, in crunch time, T-mac will be the go to guy, because that's the role of the closer/swingman. It's also semantics we are arguing about, because as it was pointed earlier, not only is superstar-oriented offense not mutually exclusive from team-orientated offense, I can even argue that superstar-oriented offense is a form of team oriented offense. Every team needs a focal point to spearhead its offense, its just a matter of who is the initiator.
This is true. Other than the big time point guards (Nash, Kidd), T-Mac is really one of the most unselfish superstar players out there.
IMO, the most unique aspect of Tmac's game is his ability to create for others. He draws so much attention from the defense, and he has the court vision and passing skill to hit anyone that is left open. He should be the 1st option on offense, but not in the sense of jacking up huge numbers of shot. He is going to be the show starter, and he has the bball IQ to make the right decisions, which in most cases would be feeding the ball down low to Yao and let him destroy the other team inside. IIRC, van gundy said at the beginning of training camp that this year Tmac will still be the No.1 option, but getting the ball to Yao on the low post is the best offense any team can have. I think Tmac will be playing more like a point forward, doing all the decision making and get the whole system going, which makes heavy use of Yao's presence. With all the weapons we acquired lately, Tmac might be able to defer to others much more in the first 3 quaters, and then just take over in the 4th.
Hmm... Might be just me...but um...I sense a little more LOVE for our coach finally? Nah. Margaritas these last 6 hrs... Sleepy time. I will re-read the thread tomorrow.
generalthade_03 that was cool. i got a laugh out of that. thx and you're right, clutch's site is top dog, thx to threads like this.
All perimeter players with much better percentages than Tmac has ever shot. Dwayne Wade: 49.5 Paul Pierce: 47.1 Dirk Nowitzki: 48.0 Carmelo Anthony: 48.1 LeBron James 48.0 Shawn Marion 52.5 Mike James even has: 46.9 Tmac: 40.6 Last year: 43.1 Best year: 45.7 Career avg: 44.1 Don't tell me that Tmac doesn't get a little under control sometimes. He should shoot at least 47% for us to be dominant. A missed shot is doesn't help a team win. Defensively, yes, he's probably our best defensive player, but ability and result are vastly different. If we want to take care of every team this year and win a bunch, he's got to play defense all the time. He's also the physical leader of the team. If people see Tmac play defense, then the rest of the team will chime in with the extra effort. Tracy's defensive numbers don't add up to anything special. If he gave it all to win every game, every minute that he played, the stats would show that. http://www.82games.com/04HOU11D.HTM and http://www.82games.com/0506/05HOU12D.HTM Basically, the effective FG% allowed is not all that impressive. You are right, Tracy is an unbelievable talent on both ends when he puts forth his best efforts, but I'm not going to give him the credit for being one of the best in the game until he learns to shut down guys even on the off-nights. I'd like to see us put teams away by the end of the 3rd. That's how you win 60-70 games. And yes, I do expect this team to win between 60-70. They are too talented not to.
