The Bubble And The Players That Are Getting Ready To Play Musical Chairs Every year at this time, the management of every team in NBAland starts looking around for another piece in the puzzle. They all have a "early season gameplan" with certain "expectations" and invariably those expectations don't come any closer to actual results, than a Rocket's foul being called back due to referee error. That is, nada, nyet, nope, never. But it does give rise to some fun with musical chairs .... by some, if not most ... of the so called: "powers in the towers". Here are some people that may have a change of venue very shortly: Carlos Rogers: I know, say it ain't so, but we need a veteran PG and some instant forward help. TMass is injured and plays an effective dual role when not on IR. We need Cato right where he is, Walt is difficult to unload due to recent poor performance, Bull just will not be traded and that is that, so Carlos is odd man out. Mack,Carlos,Walt: Despite having said the above, a nice package of these three could net a starter with some pizzaz. Salaries would be around the $8M range so figuring $6.5 to $9.0M is not out of the question. Some of the combos listed here come to mind. PJ Carlisimo: He is so far out on a limb that this bough may break within days. He has a good working relationship with the suits upstairs but they want results, and they will fire a coach before a whole team. Well, this is California, that rule may not hold there. If he is allowed to stay until the allstar break, he will be told to completely revamp his game plan and the roster. That means we may have an opportunity to get Jamison or Mills. Chris Ford: Read the above and insert his name. His players just may have more potential, but he's has poorer coaching ability,IMHO. Marshall,Starks,Dampier:On the bubble for the last three weeks is Marshall who has been shopped everywhere except Walmart, and Starks has been in the dog house with PJ for two over weeks. This may sound outlandish but Dampier could be had for a fraction (85%) of his tag right now without any argument from him, the fans or management. A nice Rocket package for one or more of these guys, could be put together with our availables. Maloney: I am not going to even comment on that one. I still cannot for the life of me understand keeping the IR postions open and waiving two players that would either have some value at the proverbial "twenty game nervous" period that comes around every year. And is now here!!! To me it is a no brainer. If you really needed those spots for an imminent trade, then that is when you dump them. Not at game one. (And, you don't want to hear my comments about having a Don McLean/Sam Mack value pack right now. Can you say Sixers, Clippers, etc...) Robert Horry: Long Bob looks to be the out for LA. They kept hinting at Rice being expendable when Kobe comes back, but frankly he has consistently proven his worth and gives them the only legitimate outside threat. Sure Harper can do it, Kobe can too, but is streaky. Rice has the THREAT. And the THREAT is what gives an outside shot the advantage of making your inside(Shaq) game better. Especially in the Triangle. Horry would not be happy anywhere he goes. But I would take him over Walt right now. Problem is, LA won't take Walt unless he could convince them that his Trey is back and consistent. If that were the case, we would probaly keep him. If we were really "Horny to get Horry" we could package something together, but probably lose Kenny Thomas amoung others. Do we want to do all that to get a very good defensive forward, with historically a good outside shot, and a slowed but fashionable slashing game? All the while he would be bemoaning his poor luck in ending up back in Houston. Didn't we just unload someone like that? Gary Payton: After yet another lockeroom blow up and a practice run in with Westphall ... GP has told several people he will never play in Seattle again after this year. Right now he would do anything and go anywhere that has some promise of being competitive. he sites specifically the fact that his coach doesn't know how to use his players right. Doesn't know basic subs sytems, and match up philosophies. We wouldn't have a hope in hell of getting him, but some lucky team will. Can you say Bucks? He wants G Karl, and G Karl wants him. Would the Bucks be willing to give up their star backcourt and say, a forward or two for GP? How about one of their backcourt and two forwards? Toronto: McGrady has worked himself up into a frenzy, this year before his Free Agency. He is an integral part of their offense now. However, I still maintain he will not end the year in a Raptors Uniform. Toronto has an ailing backcourt, with no real quarterback PG to take the team controls, and it doesn't help Christie being injured twice for short periods. A surging team led by Carter who feel they can hold their position all the way to the playoffs are looking at solidifying their attack. They need some direction in the game and they need a PG with control. They went after Hughes before the Iverson injury, but you have to question whether Hughes is the type of "control" the Raptors need. He would add more scoring threat certainly. But, I know this sounds crazy, but Maloney was well liked by them, and a "stay at home ... pass it to the big guys", type of PG is what they need. Don't get me wrong ... Maloney is not the answer to their percieved problems, but yet again, if he was still here, he would be included in a package. A Mobley/Maloney backcourt along with another forward (Carlos) may have been enough to entice Toronto to include McGrady who they will lose to Free Agency next year anyway, in some packge. You have to think they are also banging on the door at Pistonville for a chance to talk about Derek harper. Harper and Hughes driving Carter/Mcgrady would be an awesome Raptor Bite. TNT: T.Ratlif and T. Hill are still bubble bound despite their respective value to the team. Both have had either health problems, consistent scoring preseance, but both have excellent abilities and without a doubt one or both will be gone soon. <center>More To Come</center> [This message has been edited by popeye (edited December 06, 1999).]
JeffB: Actually Jamison,Marshall,Starks and Blaylock are the players that will likely be moved but for all different reasons. I like Jamison and Mills. Jamison because he is arguably the best player they have and therefore can bring the most in trade. And let's face it they need a complete changeover. If PJ goes they will need some players moved and a whole lot added. A two for one or three for one in their favor is their(Warriors) best case scenario. If PJ stays he will be forced to make major roster changes. This will all happen soon,folks. Marshall because he can be traded for something of value now. I personally think he may be an underachiever, but you never know. Sometimes it's the team mix. Contract is formidable at $4.5 - 5.0M til 2002 but well within anything the Warriors would be looking to trade for. remember they probably want a two for one or two for four type deal. They need a mix, and depth. Starks has thoroughly pissed off PJ. John also does not like the "in your face style" of PJ coaching and resents being treated like a rookie eventhough he feels he is a "HOF-in-waiting". Better get used to it Johnny. BTW: Rockets have had several opportnities to pick up Starks this year already and things did not come together. Mookie I like. I always have. But he is slowed, and has a contract through to '03. I like his ability to distribute the ball and his scorability when surounded by quality players. But Starks will probably get the nod from the Rockets if a deal was ever put together, mainly because of Stark's relatively short contract. And rudy can't forget the competitiveness that Stark shows at times. TraJ: Massenburg has great upside and I love his versatility. He also does something that Cato,Rogers,Williams,Hamilton and Thomas do not do. He is easy around the basket. That's what I call the ability to be quiet when needed in a defensive role, bang around when needed, has soft hands even in the pitch of battle. For some reason,Hamilton and Thomas have mproved this more and more every game. But Cato, Williams and Rogers look like they run around with the ball. They still "steer" balls toward the rim. This causes a lot of missed opportunities. Lots of easy baskets missed. Lots of over tipped or hard tips that bounce away. Cato also gets his arms and hands out of position on rebounds a whole lot, and forces himself during some defensive stances. This causes more than half of his fouls. Massenburg has slower hands and feet than Cato, but more balanced footwork and softer movement under the same "battle" conditions. Despite all of the above, I think if Massenburg were not injured now he would be the first on the list of availables for trade. Carlos has not established consistent effectiveness. Personally I think Kenny Thomas has moved Carlos out of rotation. And, Carlos may have trouble getting back to it. Hardwood: Theo is tradeable right now and they have a whole lot of needs on that team. Seven big bills is not a lot and they have had offers including an Antoine Walker deal earlier this season(it will never happen now, as Antoine has been endorsed recently as untouchable), and a Finley deal was talked about between the two teams as late as two weeks ago. Quality for Quality. Remember what you are always looking for is a blend of players. Who compliments who. Marshall and Starks contracts amount to $8M or so. Ironically, Rogers, Williams and Sam Mack may add up to 85% - 115% of that figure. Best Possible Acquistions: Mo Taylor(Clips) Marshall(Warriors) Harper(Detroit) Lost Rockets Likely to Get Acquistions: Carlos Rogers Walt Williams Sam Mack Brice Drew
Man, I would take Horry. He can play defense, and we need that bad. I would trust Rudy, i think, on horry - if he takes him back, it would be with good reason. If not, that would be the indicator of damaged goods. Personally, it would be a lets-get-back-to-basics and play some D type of maneuver. The lakers could use mack if you ask me. I am not so sure Horry would hate it here anymore, incidentally. The style of play might suit him better, and i think his wife lives here. . . --- Nice call on PJ. Latrell's choking is the only reason he still has a job, he is just an awful coach, i think. It seems like trades are not necessarily in our best interest right now, even Walt. We starting to gel, pieces are lining up . . .the Rocks have been chasing Walt for year and years, there is no way the will give up on him now. Let the team be, maybe with the exception of Mack, and see how we improve. This Shandon Anderson explosion is big, big news, folks. Very big news. Could change alot of things which need to be changed. Go Rocks CBrownFanClub ps: pop - tell Big E I am always available for a brief synopsis on the Fan Club.
Mo Taylor is definitely IMHO on a level above everyone else.If they can pull that off it would be a big time coupe....and you know that Bryce's trade value has got to be rising......
CBFC,I agree that Shandon's explosions SHOULD get Rudy to drawing up plays for him.I'd like to see his great ability to move without the ball maximized.Have him post up and drive the lane more too.Rudy has got to play to our strengths(on offense)....Stevie and Shandon...major blessings in disguise w/Dream and Stevie out for their long and short stints.We have a chance when Dream comes back to make a lot of noise..........HH
Before you guys get excited about Horry, consider the fact that when he left here, one of his comments during the press conference went something like this : "I'm glad I'm here, I kinda got tired of just standing around the 3 pt line and dumping it into Hakeem all day". I also think Robert has back and tendonitis problems in his knees. Also, were he and Rudy getting along when he left? I'm not sure. ------------------ Rocket fuel pumps through these veins...
I remember Horry saying that very well. But he is no longer regarded as "a 6-10 gazelle who can slash and shoot threes." he is now regarded as "a 6-10 head case who can throw entry passes to Shaquille." He is destined to throw entry passes to Dream and he knows it. But the francis, Cato, Anderson motif may keep him from b****ing so much. He could use a career heimlich, and coming home to Htown may not have the same odor it did even two years ago, when we tried to sign him with our cap exemption. And i will modify my previous stand on keep-walt-be-patient: i will give up Williams for Horry in a second. I have a soft spot for old rockets. (there's a news flash. . .) CBrownFanClub
Some things we need to clear up first before any deals are done..: We need to wait for a few more games...anywhere in between 5-10, and see what direction this team is headed. If it starts to seem that this team has a strong chance and is starting to put it together, we head in one direction....if we continue to play young, then we go in a different direction. NO MORE OF THIS HALF-ASSED, HOVERING BETWEEN CONTENDER AND REBUILDING TEAM. We need to go in one direction. Let me say that some acquisitions could help us for this year and for the future...these are special cases. Let me also say that I think Mobley should be traded this season. He may have come into his own of late, but we have more pressing needs. Mo Taylor: I wasn't too impressed by this guy after the Clipper game. But if you want to talk Clippers, then I would be willing to give up the whole pot to try and land Michael Olowokandi. I saw some nice Dream-esque moves from him. I'm sure the same coaching staff that developed Othella Harrington into a 20+ scorer can turn guys with more natural talent like O'kandi and Cato into gems. A Cato-O'kandi frontcourt could be downright scary in a few years. Popeye, any new news on that front? John Starks: If we're going for a championship this year, an acquisition like this could be HUGE. It wouldn't take a building block [Mobley] to get him, so I say, why not? Starks plays with fire every night, and if we want to go at the title this year, we will need veteran leadership in the backcourt. I would be willing to give up any group of Rogers, Mack, and Walt for John. Blaylock, Marshall, Jamison, Mills, Dampier: I don't want to have anything to do with this G-State trash. Jamison is decent, but far from being a future good player. The kid plays hard, but to get him, you would most probably have to part with Mobley. That is just too much, IMHO, for a college-player like Jamison. Blaylock is pitiful, and if you are going in that direction, you might as well go after Starks. Marshall and Mills' salaries are a joke, just like their game's are. I don't want to have anything to do with them. Dampier doesn't have an ounce of talent in his body, and got a big contract because he has good size and can run the floor well....pathetic. I think he makes $7 mill and that is a joke for a player with his skills (or lack of). I'll pass on this Warrior trash. Bobby Horry: Straight up for Walt? Sure...he couldn't be any worse. 'Sides, maybe Horry could find that lost spark and return to his '95 form...[then again, maybe not.] Walt for Horry...I'll give that a shot. Ratliff, Hughes, McGrady: I don't think we have any chance to get any of these guys. But damn, if we could, I would open up my roster for any one of them, and let Brown/Butch Carter choose who he wanted [outside of Francis and Anderson]. McGrady/Hughes would be phenomenal, pairing with Francis. Ratliff would give Cato the defensive help he needs. Wish we could get one of these guys. Carlos Rogers, Walt, Mack: Carlos has been playing well of late, and hopefully that has risen his trade value. Same goes for Bryce Drew. Hopefully GM's around the league remember the pre-Rocket Walt, and make the same mistake the Rockets did. 5 bills for a specialist...what was Isiah thinking?!? Mobley: He has been playing well of late...so trade him. Shandon has been playing better, and the Rockets seriously need to make a choice. Either keep Mobes and have Shandon play out of position the rest of his career, or continue to bring Mobes off the bench and risk losing him to free agency. Then again, you'd be best off trading him for one of the gems [McGrady/Hughes/Ratliff] on the market this year.
Couple of things: Let's Set the Record Straight A good buddy emailed me and asked the question: Are sure Mack is being traded? Answer: No. What I attempted to do was post who was available (and I didn't mention even half the guys that are being shopped right now) accross the league, and attempted to highlight those guys that may affect some of our decisions. I then speculated on who we had that may be "tradeable" for some of those players. And in some cases mentioned my opinion of why they are available. Mack was included in that category. Sorry for any confusion. I'll attempt to make it plainer next time. BTW:A lot of these guys I would NOT want to see in a Rockets uniform, despite their availability, or our ability to have the talent to trade for them. Cabbage: McGrady & Mobes Agree with most of your assessment, however my friend, trading Mobley (and it would take a lot more) for someone of McGrady's calibre merely because Cat will be in a Free Agency year next year, misses the "McGrady Factor". Toronto would trade him this year, not because he is not performing(because he is burning them up), but because he also will be in a Free Agency year next summer, and they are sure he will bolt. They definitely would not trade a potential loss(to FA) in McGrady for a potential loss (to FA) in Mobley. Not unless they could sign Mobes to a long term immediately.Mobes may very well test the market to the tune of 4-5Million this summer,so don't bet on him signing in Toronto. Hughes The one thing that really bothers me about him,is the fact that I cannot help thinking he will draw Francis's game away from development in some way. Either, take that 2 role away from Steve, or force steve into playing the straight man for Hughes slashing/burning/scoring, or make it a one-upmanship "who is number one" thing everynight, or diminish Francis in some way. Ya know what I mean? Make no mistake: If it's a toss up for either Hughes or Francis, Stevie Wonder has my vote hands down,no contest. If it was possible to control Hughes, and I mean control his urges, his media mouth, his "me first team second" attitude, then great ... let's make a backcourt that will scare the bejesus out of every coach we play against. Carlos,Walt,etc... I would hate to lose Carlos. I also wish Walt was playing great right now. Both of these guys were maybes when they came. IMHO they remain maybes. Not because of lack of desire. Carlos has fire, promise and I know everyone agrees he needs more time. He gets involved defensively and that is what keeps his minutes up when he is flunking on offense. But frankly, everytime I see him play offense, he is stiff, straight armed, every shot hits the rim like it was going 60MPH. He needs to calm, get some soft touch around the basket and chill a bit. Walt on the other hand is dying by the same sword he has lived by. Rockets are a team that every player better have multi talents, but specialize in one important factor. A key role sort of thing. For Walt that is trey shooting. If that is gone, which effectivel it has for some time, he needs to fall back on something else. He can't defend, his mid shot was there earlier (same as his free throws) but is now gone, he moves on every post he sets, he reaches in, he misplays on fast breaks, his baseline footwork is atrocious and "lingers". He just stands there. Where are the skills? I would take Bull over him any day. he is consistent, sharp, active on defense. I know some would argue that, but he has a passable defensive stance, smart when challenged and uses his hands as well as most. And Bull makes half of Walt's salary. A close friend of the Rockets told me that Rudy loves Walt and it would have to be a "pretty good" offer to get him traded. Dang, Rudy watch your own game films. Anyway,Cheers. pop [This message has been edited by popeye (edited December 06, 1999).]
Popeye: McGrady - Yea, I understand the situation. It looks like the Raptors want guys with guaranteed contracts seeing that they have such a hard time resigning guys. A Finley - McGrady swap meets the criteria. [Note: Finley/Carter combo would be...scary.] Hughes - Unlike McGrady, I really think we have a good shot at getting him. The problems you brought up are worth considering. Let's think about this for a while. Why do you need to have a #1 option? It always seems like problems occur when 3 superstars join forces, but I don't see any problem with 2. Right now, the Rockets are a one-star ship, with Francis being the lone threat. He needs/and will need that extra help. Also, Francis is much more willing to distribute the ball than Iverson is. They could complement each other's game's with their unique abilities to score and pass. Two point guards in the backcourt. One thing I noted in the first Suns game was that after Francis went down, the Rockets no longer had a guy who could consistently attack the defense and either pass out/or score. Barkley picked up the slack for the first overtime, but he just didn't have enough to keep it up consistently in the second. We need to have more than one guy who can put pressure on the defense and create. I understand the possible problems that could occur from a Hughes trade, but the payoff could be HUGE. I am hoping that Finley and McGrady get traded for each other before the deadline, so that Mobley will become the next highest bid. Hopefully Rudy T has this same wish.
Okay I see where you're coming from ... Hughes I like, I just don't know if Rudy could handle the situation. He's a hands off, they are all adults, let them work it out, sort of approach may not work inthis situation. Francis needs to know he is number one. That is my gut feeling and my well ... just call it my gut feeling ... from lots of experience, or whatever. Riley could handle that situation of Francis and Hughes. I thought someone like Larry Brown, who I really respect, could also handle it. But, dang. this kid burned his ass. He calls a meeting three days ago with Hughes and his agent, to get some mediation, some meeting of minds, some idea of common ground for team and player direction. Brown leaves the meeting shaking his head and mumbling. Hughes comes out and effectively indicates; "nobody understands me" , "this coach doesn't know how to coach me" , " Iwant otta here" , etc.... (my quotes not theirs). Do you really want to chance hurting Steve's devlopment on that? I may. I might. I am not totally convinced one way or another. But I sure would want to have some serious input from Stevie and some other key members before I pulled the trigger. If I could trade Mobes and someone else, I would rather have McGrady. Or Taylor. Or Finley. In that order. I would take O'Kandi, only if: #1. he was included in something that netted us a passable 2/3,because it would cost us at least Mobley to get him, or #2. along with everyone else we would have to trade, we also lost Walt's contract in the process and replaced him with a veteran "old school" PG with a short contract.
Hey cab I see where you're coming from too, but I do not love the idea of bottom loading the team, too much talent at the small end. I can think of combinations that have not worked - Iverson/Stackhouse, but none that have (of late). I think you have to have to go big at this point, should you trade. Anderson is our SGF of the future, he is bad ass. If we're gonna deal, lets go big, i have a bad intuition about backcourts stocked with talented, young guys of the same ilk (great skills, need to develop, etc.)I think they harm each other. CBrownFanClub
Cabman: Quick question: 1. Mobley & Walt to Sixers. 2. Carlos to Warriors. 3. Hughes to Warriors 4. Ratliff to Houston. Do you do it? I am otta here. Home for a beer and a game.
---> Popeye I'm not the Cabman, but I'd like a shot at this one. If we deal off Walt and 'Los, who is our starting 3? Bullard? His specialized skill is best suited for off-the-bench situations. Shandon? I suppose but I think he's better suited at the 2. And Ratliff, how many minutes could we give him behind Barkley when we're already trying to find minutes for Cato? Who backs up the three now, Mack? What do we do then with TMass? Surely Theo will eat up all his minutes leaving adequate talent languishing at the end of the bench. I can live with giving up Mobley because it frees up minutes, shots, and opportunity for Shandon; however,I think we'd be best suited finding ourselves a decent starting 3. I do the trade only if we keep Carlos and unload TMass.
Mobley$1mill+Rogersapprox$2mill+Walt$5mill = Ratliff$7mill Hmmmm...let me watch this team for another week and I'll let you know. Basically....you are trading Rogers+Mobley for Ratliff. Walt doesn't count [addition by subtraction.] Sooo...we are trading away two young, athletic guard/forward types for our defensive power forward of the future. Oh Jeez, this one is tough...I'll tell you I would certainly try and swap that trade around so that instead of the Rockets landing Rat, we get a Lynch+Hughes+scrub combination. Gosh, now that I think about it, I really would not make that Ratliff trade. I have always had a soft spot for backcourt talent, and this deal leaves our once stand-out perimeter, very weak. PF Barkley/Ratliff/Thomas SF Mack/Bullard C Cato/Hamilton SG Anderson/? PG Francis/Drew I'll tell you one thing, Popeye. I would first try and see if that deal could be tweaked around a bit so that we would throw in another player, and then in return receive either Starks or Lynch. Basically, we would be trading away our high powered offense [Mobley] for big man help. Unless we can get a swing player thrown in, I will have to pass. Hughes: Yes, of course with Francis' permission. Get Hughes and Francis on the phone, let them talk it out. I am aware that it has never worked before, but DAMN.... PF Barkley SF Anderson C Cato SG Hughes PG Francis would blow the league apart, with a little chemistry.
Cabbage- I've enjoyed your remarks, they make a lot of sense. I have one question; do you think Shandon wants to play at the 3 for the rest of his career in Houston, should we be able to aquire Hughes? Also, How do you think Shandon plays when he's at the 3? Bottom line is, Francis and Hughes would be sick, but we are dedicated to Shandon and I believe he might freak out if he couldn't start at the 2. What do you think?
IMHO, the Rockets would benefit the most by going after a small forward. With Kenny Thomas looking like he could be someone special, Cato signed to a nice extention, and T-mass almost unmovable (injury), why would Theo be the guy we are looking for? Our 3 is the problem. Anderson wants to stay at the 2, thus, Mobley is gone. Unfortunately, Toronto won't give up McGrady for a player who may bolt in a year. So, we should sign Mobley to a fair contract extention, then we would surely have Toronto's attention. A Mobley/Drew/(Rogers, Williams, or Mack) deal might land McGrady. What do you think? Also, I hope we are agreed that McGrady will be one of the best SF in the league for many years to come. Popeye, what are the chances?
Thanks, popeye!! How likely is a Jamison deal? I'd love to have him on board. [This message has been edited by JeffB (edited December 06, 1999).]
What about Massenburg? I like him, and I think he's certainly valuable while Hakeem is out, but do you think he would draw any interest -- either alone or as part of a package? I think I'd rather let go of him than Carlos. I think it would be great if we could pick up a starting caliber small forward.
