1) What was the bigger mistake: Trading Kevin Willis for two first rounders which were in turn used to select players dealt for much later picks, OR, not selecting Rashard Lewis outright like most fans begged for? (still haunts me to this day hearing Carroll Dawson say Rashard was fourth on the Rockets' list, but their top 3 guys - Dickerson, Drew, Turkcan - just happened to be there) 2) Do you think Drew will do well in Chicago? ------------------ NOTHING BUT .NET CLUTCHCITY.NET
well we needed to trade Willis for picks to have enough cap room to get Pippen right? So I guess the bigger mistake was passing on Rashard. I think Bryce will do fine if he gets to start, which I think he will. His only competition are rookies - ElAmin, Crawford and Guyton.
Clutch, (1) Kevin Willis was obviously the worst one of the two. Lewis didn't work out well for the Rockets, and Mirsad supposedly put on a shootong expedition. Drew was picked before we got Steve Francis and decided to get rid of the inside-out offense. Dickerson is a bad man. He is as good a two guard as has come out of college in recent years; his future is certainly bright. But Willis was a solid contributor, and was absloutely crapped on when he didn't get an all-star nod that year for his efforts. Being able to play two positions and do that well in a 6th man type of position is an invaluable asset that obviously didn't get too much consideration from the Rockets brass. That was a stupid move. Willis is absolutely superior to Cato. Cato is capable, but Willis is proven. (2) I don't know how Drew will do. But he should start. Crawford could have been like Baron Davis was for the Hornets this past year, except not as good. Khalid El-Amin may never get signed before training camp or the season, and I think that if he's not dealt to another team, he'll go to Europe or lead the CBA in some category. A.J. Guyton can lead a team and do it all. I was more suprised that he went in the second round than I am that El-Amin well that low. I mean, El-Amin is short, pudgy, lazy on defense, doesn't shoot that well, eventhough he is a fierce competitor and is capable of doing big things. El-Amin will play NBA ball someday, but Drew has the tools and might be on the right team to use them. So I see Drew and Guyton running the point this year for the Bulls. I just hope that Drew doesn't become a Rocket killer. But I do think he'll lead that team is assists and put up about 12 point a game, although I don't know how well he'll shoot. But if he plays like he did in those games that he started in Francis' absence, he should thrive there. And that's all I have to say about that... . ------------------ Don't anybody ever suggest again that we sign Tracy Murray to a deal. [This message has been edited by Pass 1st, shoot 2nd (edited September 29, 2000).] [This message has been edited by Pass 1st, shoot 2nd (edited September 29, 2000).]
1. Not selecting R Lewis. 2. OK.......he is a journeyman and OK is the best that Chicago can hope for. Is he a poor man's Stockton? No. Mango ------------------ Test Your NBA Trade Ideas 1. Put new topics in the proper forum. Things happening in the rest of the NBA 2. Use clear wording for new threads. 3. No duplicate threads 4. Conduct yourself as an adult. The Serious Police are watching. Donate Blood or be assimilated!
1. Rashard error 2. I hope Drew rocks is chicago, if he can get plus 20 min a game he will do great. ------------------ Discombobulation Imminent
Well, the Rockets couldn't have made the second mistake (passing on Rashard) if they didn't make the first "mistake" (trading Willis, which I didn't think was a mistake at the time) to begin with, right? Willis was a solid contributor, and yeah it was hard to let a quality big man go, but the rox needed to get younger and when the deal went down I was pleasantly surprised they got 2 first rounders out of him. And as far as a Cato/Willis comparison goes, sure Willis is proven, but how much left does he have in the tank? I'd rather have Cato, but of course hindsight is 20/20. So, I guess we could say that the Willis trade is a mistake given that we have nothing to show for it as of now, but if we had drafted Rashard, it would have been an awesome move. ------------------
At the time I was shocked to learn that Willis had been delt, I thought it was a move by the rockets that would come back and hunt them. But now seing that due to us picking Dickerson got us Francis I cannot complain... I wish Drew the best except when he plays us ------------------ Life moves pretty fast, If you don't stop and look once in a while you might miss it!! ... Ferris Bueler
Just to clarify: We got the #16 and #18 picks for Willis. We picked Bryce Drew and Mirsad Turckan. They both did not pan out, and Mirsad had to be traded for salary reasons. Last I heard he was sucking down in NY. I think we traded Mirsad to the Bucks. Bottom line is that we received low picks for both players. The bigger mistake is obviously drafting Rashard. Right now, he would blossom under the system and would start to really blow up together with all the other young guys. Willis was good, but I agreed with the trade. It's not my fault the Rockets messed it all up in the end. Willis was simply getting old, which can be seen by his recent performance in Toronto. He might have contributed in that following season, but not enough to mark the difference between the ring and early exit from the playoffs. Will Bryce succceed? I think he'll be quite decent given the minutes, which all indications point to the thought that he will. I wish him the best. ------------------ Nederland 2002 Qualifying Campaign (Damn those penalties!!!) Houston Rockets Space Center- Not just another ClutchCity.NET clone. We're that and more!
Prempeh, You are right: the Willis deal was a bad decision based upon the information we then had available. But we wanted money for Pippen, so getting rid of Willis and getting the picks in that deal that could have been used to take Rashard were merely ancilliary when compared to the Pippen acquisition. But I think I understand you to see that Lewis was a hindsight is 20/20 cliche. But the real question seems to be what was the worst move, losing Willis or acquiring Pippen. I don't think that anybody would have chosen Willis over Pippen, or can say otherwise from a forward looking position. 3Pointer, Well, that's one way of looking at it ! ------------------ Don't anybody ever suggest again that we sign Tracy Murray to a deal.
Clutch, Your first question has two answers. At the time, the Willis trade looked the worst because he was still one of the best power forwards in the game & had just come off of what should have been an all-star season. Not taking Lewis was at the time a wise choice, because he was straight out of high school & was going to take 2-3 years to be ready for the NBA. We also had a veteran club that didn't have a lot of years left in them & we needed guys that could come in & contribute right away, or at least by the end of the season. The second answer to your first question is that in hind sight, Willis skills started fading within a year of the trade, which made the trade look like a smart move. So, in hind sight, not taking Lewis appears to be the worst move. I will say that of the 3 picks, only Turkcan was the big disappointment. Drew just got caught in the middle of the offensive transition. Who could've ever guessed that we would've had a chance to get Francis the next year? As far as Drew in Chicago, I think that if they go with a low post game, he will flourish. It sure would be nice to see some of the posters here that have been dogging him have to eat their words. ------------------
NOT picking Lewis was the biggest mistake because he will be ABSOLUTELY GREAT for 10 years after Willis (a great NBA career guy) has retired. I think Drew will do well in Chicago. I hope Drew does well; he deserves the spotlight. He has game; the situation changed here and he has been scapegoated for a multitude of things he had nothing to do with. He seems like a good kid. Best for him. ------------------ Time is a great teacher-- only problem is it kills all its pupils. www.FlashAdvantage.com
Good questions. #1) Rashard #2) No #3) We were worse after getting Barkley Sincerely, CBFC ------------------
I have a question...exactly how many people here simply are not impressed by Rashard. OK...he is young, and I will never win an argument because people can always pull out the "great upside" card, but based purely on what I saw last year, he is a classic Horry-type player who needs an open shot or an exposed crease to do anything. There is a great chance Lewis will never be a primary scoring option, if he doesn't learn a move that commands a double team. There is a common tendency to look at someone's points and a few big games and proclaim them a scorer; when in fact, they were the recipient of being open due to other double teams. For instance, when Payton posted up Stockton over and over, Utah chose to leave Lewis (the kid) open in the playoffs. And they won the series. This post is a matter of degrees. I'm not saying Lewis sucks or doesn't deserve to start on some teams, but I don't see this all-star people are proclaiming. Who remembers the 40 point games by Horry? [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited September 29, 2000).]
I think the poll question (maybe the official one) should be: did we get enough in return for Drew. If we assume that we will get either a 1st round pick 13 or higher or 2 2nd round picks if the Bulls are in the lotto again, then I don't especially like it since the Bulls are lotto bound. But because no one will tell us the conditions, it's hard to say if it is good or bad. I want a 22nd pick or better for Drew. As for the other things, not picking Lewis was the bigger mistake, though it wasn't much of one. And I think Drew will be alright in Chicago, though he'd do better if he had a better coach. ------------------ Rockets Draft Obligations Summary http://www.gaffordstudios.cjb.net/
The Willis trade was a good one. Dickerson and Drew would in all likelyhood still be Rockets if Francis hadn't become available. Even if the Rockets had taken Lewis he might have ended up being traded as Turkcan was to make room for Quitten. (Now Quitten was the BIG MISTAKE in the Rockets dealings over the past 4 years) If I had my preference I would have liked the Rockets to draft Lewis instead of Turkcan and then not trade for Quitten. A lineup of Francis, Anderson, Lewis, Taylor and Cato with Olajuwon, Mobley, Norris, Langhi and Thomas off the bench doesn't sound bad at all. As they say though, hindsight is 20/20. I think Drew will be a decent point guard in Chicago. At least he'll have an opportunity which is what he wouldn't have in Houston. ------------------
Answer the question proposed, HP! I think the bigger mistake was not selecting Rashard. At this point is doesn't matter whether he is a potential all-star, big scorer, whatever. The point is he plays a position(SF/PF), very well for his limited experience in the league I might add, that is one of the weak links on this team. A guy his age is only going to get better, barring injury. He may not become a superstar, but who cares. The positives of drafting him outweigh the negatives making him a risk that the Rockets should have taken. As for Drew, I think he is moving into a good situation. He will be free to pass and shoot as he pleases. I wouldn't be suprised to see him get 12-16ppg and 5-8apg. ------------------ Too often, we lose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, but it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and pimp-slap the mother****** upside the head!
Pimp...didn't I give an implied answer, which is: What is the big deal...I don't see Rashard as that valuable. We generated extra draft picks with Willis, and cap room, so I like that. I still say the BIG mistake was not take Al Harrington...forget about Rashard. There seems to be a Houston-bias for Rashard that forgets Harrington was on the board as well.
Not picking up Rashard. He is the missing link of the current Rockets roster, IHMO. But i still think he will find his way over here, sooner or later. The hometown appeal does wonders. But then again, if we manage to grab a strong defensive minded SF in next year´s draft, the point may be moot. I just think that sometimes we are way too hungry for our own good. Just look at how many years in the lottery teams in a rebuilding process spend. We rebuilt in ONE year. We can´t expect to win them all, can we? Though Rashard sure would look REAL good in the current rockets team wouldn´t he? ------------------ By moonlight, we RIDE ten THOUSAND side by side...!
to Ace and the others: I am happy to report that Mircad is sucking in his home land on his old team 1.Lewis was the bad misstake but it can be fixed. cant it? 2.I wish drew all the best (but hope he will suck on the 2 games ageinst us.) ------------------ The holy land #1 rocket fan [This message has been edited by The Israeli Rocket (edited September 29, 2000).]
HP, I think when you look at Rashard, you have to look at his age and what he's been able to accoplish thus far. Coming out of High School, Al Harrington was rated as the best HS player and was the first one taken in the draft. Yet Rashard has cracked the starting lineup and has played well for the most part. While I agree that he may not become the team's main guy, I think his impact in Seattle is the versitility he posesses. He wound up playing three positions on a team that was a playoff team. Did pretty well,too. I expect him to get better and become a #33 type player. You have to remenber that he is only 20 and last year was his first real year of playing because during his rookie campaign, he mostly kept the seats warm for GP and Vin. What we got compared to what we should have gotten shows me that Rudy, CD and Co. need to broaden their scopes a bit. I just hope that we don't let the next young phenom get by us again. Remember the Rodney McCray/ Clyde Drexler mishap. Hope it never happens again. ------------------
