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Tragedy in Norway

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by rocketsjudoka, Jul 25, 2011.

  1. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    [rquoter]"No one should use the atrocities in Norway to silence debates about immigration or Islam. No one should use them to delegitimize political opponents. But those who are most hostile to Islam and most worried about the consequences of immigration must do some serious soul searching, make sure that their rhetoric in the future leaves no room for doubt about our fundamental values, and distance themselves from the rhetoric that I have described. "[/rquoter] [/quote]

    I think this is a really difficult issue and while I certainly don't agree with most anti-Islam and anti-immigrant rhetoric, whether here in the US or other places. I think censorship would make things much worse.
     
  2. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    A good documentary with great information. Be careful though, there is lots of very tragic footage.

    <iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Hb0a3aG1XbI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  3. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Breivik found sane and sentenced to 10 years to 21 years but likely to never be free.

    http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/...ivik-declared-sane-gets-21-year-sentence?lite

    Norway massacre gunman Anders Breivik declared sane, gets 21-year sentence

    Updated at 11:35 a.m. ET: OSLO -- A Norwegian court ruled Friday that confessed mass killer Anders Behring Breivik was sane, deciding he was criminally responsible for the massacre of 77 people last summer.

    Reading the ruling, Judge Wenche Elisabeth Arntzen said that "in a unanimous decision ... the court sentences the defendant to 21 years of preventive detention."

    However, such sentences can be extended under Norwegian law as long as an inmate is considered dangerous. Experts have said Breivik is likely to spend the rest of his life behind bars. Norway doesn't have the death penalty.

    Prosecutors had demanded a verdict of insanity, a fate Breivik called "worse than death," while many of his victims had said only a sane person could have carried out such a complex attack.

    Breivik, 33, detonated a fertilizer bomb outside a government building that included the prime ministerial offices last July, killing eight, then gunned down 69 people, mostly teenagers, at the ruling Labor Party's youth camp on Utoya island.

    After the ruling, Breivik told the court he would not appeal the decision.

    "He is getting what he deserves," Alexandra Peltre, 18, whom Breivik shot in the thigh on Utoya, told Reuters. "This is karma striking back at him. I do not care if he is insane or not, as long as he gets the punishment that he deserves."

    Another survivor of the massacre, Eivind Rindal, told the Norwegian newspaper VG that “it is important that the defendant gets his punishment but the most important thing is that he never gets out.”

    “There are many who shared his extreme views in our society,” Rindal added, according to an English translation in the Telegraph newspaper.

    Trine Aamodt, whose 19-year-old son was shot at Utoya, told VG she was “happy with the verdict of sanity and am also very glad that there was consensus from all the judges.”

    Guilt never a question
    Guilt had never been a question in the trial as Breivik described in chilling detail how he hunted down his victims, some as young as 14, with a shot to the body and then one or more bullets to the head.

    The killings shook this nation of five million people which had prided itself as a haven from much of the world's troubles, raising questions about the prevalence of far-right views as immigration rises.

    Few believe anyone would ever sign Breivik's release papers. One of the reasons Breivik's attacks were presented in such gruesome detail during the trial was so that the horror of Oslo and Utoya would be well-documented for the day Breivik asks to be released.

    The court’s ruling actually imposed a minimum sentence of 10 years and a maximum of 21.

    But Jo Stigen, a law professor at the University of Oslo, told NBCNews.com that Breivik was unlikely to be released for decades.

    “This means as long as he is dangerous he will not be free. It’s a potential life sentence … I can hardly see it will be considered he’s not dangerous in 30 or 40 years,” he said, speaking by phone from outside the court.

    After serving the 10-year minimum sentence, Breivik will be evaluated periodically. Stigen said it was “theoretically possible” he could be released in 10 years, but added this was highly unlikely.

    After 21 years, the prosecution can seek to have Breivik kept in prison -- Stigen said that “most certainly they will” – and a court will then decide whether to keep the mass killer in prison.

    'Tough year'
    The trial and a commission of investigation into the country's worst violence since World War Two have kept Breivik on the front pages for the past 13 months and survivors said the verdict would finally bring some closure.

    "It has been a tough year... but I don't want to be Utoya-Nicoline for the rest of my life," said Nicoline Bjerge Schie, a survivor of the shooting, ahead of the verdict.
    As a result of the ruling that he is sane, Breivik will be locked up in solitary confinement inside the maximum security Ila prison on the outskirts of Oslo. He will return to his relatively spacious cells, enjoying the comforts of a computer, newspapers and a separate exercise room.

    Anders Breivik to Norway court: I killed 77 people but am not guilty

    One team of court appointed psychiatrists concluded Breivik was psychotic while another came to the opposite conclusion. To make the ruling more difficult, several other experts who testified described a series of mental conditions Breivik suffered from.

    Polls showed that around 70 percent of Norwegians thought such a well-planned attack could not have been the work of a madman and Breivik must take responsibility rather than be dismissed as merely deranged.

    Breivik himself argued for a verdict of sanity as he wanted the attack to be seen as a political statement rather than an act of lunacy.

    He rejected criminal charges out of principle, saying he doesn't recognize the court's authority because it represents a political system that supports multiculturalism -- the reason why he targeted the Labor Party.
     
  4. trueroxfan

    trueroxfan Member

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    I don't get it. I don't know much about Norway's law, but 21 years for 77 people? Plus didn't he injure almost 60? In total over 130 victims and he gets 21 years? Even if he can't be released till he is deemed safe, how do you not give someone life...again I don't know Norway's laws, maybe they don't have those types of sentences, but it just makes me sick to think his sentence was so short. If that happened in the US, even in a state that didn't have capital punishment, how long would he get? Literally he would probably get 500 years. I have seen child molesters get 100, this guy killed or shot 130 people.
     
  5. trueroxfan

    trueroxfan Member

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    Answered my own question, but for anyone who wants to know about the death penalty or the sentence...

    http://articles.businessinsider.com...3308_1_lay-judges-judge-system-criminal-cases

    The page, written before the sentencing, explains the trial system. It generally consists of 3 judges, 1 professional and 2 "lay judges" who act as the jury of peers. In special cases, it may be extended, as it was done in this case.
     
  6. AroundTheWorld

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    The key point is that he won't come out after 21 years. Maybe a bad thing to say, but I hope he gets some "special treatment" from other prisoners.
     
  7. trueroxfan

    trueroxfan Member

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    haha, yah I wonder what prisons are like in Norway...
     
  8. Zboy

    Zboy Member

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    He is getting a nice personal space.

    Free food, workout equipment, television, a PC.

    If he would have been deemed insane, they were going to build a new facility just for him with about 17 guidance counselors.

    I feel sorry for him.
     
  9. trueroxfan

    trueroxfan Member

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    Wait, seriously? They were going to build a facility and employee 17 times more people than the inmate they're holding? I knew Norway was progressive in their Criminal Justice system, I knew they were more into the rehabilitation than incarceration, but damn that's crazy.
     
  10. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    If anyone wants to give Breivik some special treatment you can sign up to be his hockey or chess buddy.

    What I am thinking would be a great punishment for Breivik is assign nothing but Arabs wearing Kafiyas to be his buddies.

    http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/...ay-hockey-chess-with-mass-killer-breivik?lite

    Norway prison seeks 'friends' to play hockey, chess with mass killer Breivik

    A Norwegian prison is looking to hire people to be friends with mass killer Anders Behring Breivik, according to reports.

    Ila prison hopes to find people willing to play hockey, chess and otherwise interact with Breivik, who is on trial for massacring 77 people in a bomb attack in Oslo and a shooting at a summer camp for young people on Utoeya island in July last year.

    Citing Norway's Verdens Gang, the U.K.’s Telegraph newspaper reported that the "friends" would be trained experts as Breivik, 33, is feared to be too dangerous to mix with other prisoners.

    "It could be anything from a team for indoor hockey to people who are willing to play chess with him," Knut Bjarkeid, director of the Ila prison said, according to the Telegraph's translation.

    Bjarkeid said it was feared that Breivik might take other prisoners hostage in an attempt to escape if he was allowed near them. The killer is expected to serve at least 21 years in prison.

    Under Norway's laws, prisoners cannot be kept in isolation for a long time as that is considered to be unduly cruel, the AFP news agency said.

    "Many of the initiatives around Breivik are designed to prevent hostage-taking," Bjarkeid told Verdens Gang. "This makes it impossible to provide normal contact with others."

    Tears as victim's brother throws shoe at Norway mass killer Anders Breivik

    Bjarkeid added while Breivik appeared calm in court, he was still a threat. "He is a soldier in phase three of his own war. He still behaves exactly as he himself has described in his manifesto."
     
  11. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    All signed up.
     
  12. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    Considering Anders Behring Breivik's love of Kahane and his professed love of elements of the Israeli ultra-right, I wouldn't categorize him as a "Christianist" or a Neo-Nazi, as some in the press have. His bigotry was very specific.

    He's an extreme nationalist, like Pam Geller or Nick Griffin or Le Penn taken to the next level of xenophobic delusion. He was fueled by a blind hatred for the Norwegian left, but especially for what he felt was their "ruining" his country for allowing Muslims to immigrate to Norway.

    As many have said here repeatedly, religion is often used to motivate people to violence but this violence is always rooted in something political. Some of the absolute most extreme elements on both sides of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are not religious at all.

    Breivik is not particularly religious, either, as are many, if not most of the ultra-right nationalists in Europe. He's also not some erratic crazy on a clock-tower. He most certainly is a terrorist and his motivation was absolutely political. He was on a mission, and that mission, by his own admission, was a success. And there are plenty more where he came from.
     
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