This is a salary dumpage move along with a roster turnover if the season turns out bad. Steve, Maurice, and Moochie goes to New York Knicks Weatherspoon, Kurt Thomas, Othella Harrington, Eisley, Charlie Ward, and a next year's 1st round draft pick goes to Houston Rockets total salary of $23.3 million for Rockets for 2003-2004 total salary of $21.3 million plus a $2 million/year 2-3 year contract for Charlie Ward Everything comes off the books after 2005-2006. I only make this move if Van Gundy knows these guys are of good character, and they played well in his system back when he coached the Knicks. If it doesn't work, there is no obligation after 2005-2006 to any of these players. This gives management flexibility in signing players that fit better with Yao. I see no guarantees that Yao comes back after his rookie contract. Golden State is planning to go gung ho at trying to get Yao to sign with them after the rookie contract is up. That's why they dumped Fortson and Jamison to clear cap space. There are obvious demographic characteristics in the Bay Area that will attract Yao to that area. Les sees Golden State making all these cap moves. Les Alexander is no dummy. He knows Yao can be the biggest moneymaker in Rockets history. There's no way Toyota would have done the naming deal without Yao playing for the Rockets because Toyota wants to extend its reach into China. To summarize all this up, if the disastrous scenario of not making the playoffs happens this year, they need to burn down the roster and bring in new guys. If these guys don't get it done in two years, their contracts expire. Bring in a whole new set of guys to play alongside Yao. Knicks will make this move just because they are dying for a "superstar". They've already made their desires for a good point guard known. Rockets are just getting back system guys. This is good for both sides, and Steve gets to play in the Big Apple. He's a pub hawk.
PG Ward Eisley SG Mobley Piatkowski SF Jim Jackson Weatherspoon PF Thomas Harrington C Cato Yao That's 10 roster spots. There's two more to spare for the other roster spots. A huge reason for this trade is payroll flexibility in the future. Maurice and Moochie's contract extend for 3 more seasons after this one. Steve's contract goes all the way into 2010 or something. The payroll flexibility when Yao is up for renewal is a big positive. Golden State is clearing out everything after the 2005-2006 season. They are going to offer Yao the max contract and give him say so in who else to sign. Can the Rockets offer that? Not with Maurice and Moochie on the payroll. This team has made some of the worst salary cap decisions in the Western Conference. This is a solution to the disastrous scenario of not making the playoffs. Rockets are already the 7th worst in attendance. They'll be 5th worst next season if they don't make the playoffs again. Unless Les Alexander wants to continue cutting checks to mediocre players far into the future, he needs to do something after another season of failure.
I'm asking which players on the Rockets roster you would cut if we take on more players than we give. Also, let me ask politely, are you a Knicks fan?
I would also like to say that this is not a "troll trade thread" because you actually explain why you think it might make sense under certain circumstances. I just don't agree with it because I think we would be giving up way too much talent, for which we could get much better talent in return than what you suggested.
i like this trade cuz we would be able to draft Okafor and telfair in the lottery with the two lottery picks we would have.
Let me first say that I'm a Rockets fan. I've followed this team for a very long time, and I am getting tired of seeing this team not make the playoffs in a league which even mediocre teams make the playoffs. Judging from your replies, you think Steve will eventually fit into Van Gundy's grind it out offensive system. It's still early, but this combination of Van Gundy and Steve isn't working especially against teams of any decent caliber. Forget performances against garbage teams like the Clippers. This team is playing like a bunch of chickens with their heads cut off against the good teams especially in crunch time. Steve is 27 years old. Allen Iverson is 28 years old. How much longer is management going to sit by and wait for Steve to mature into the player he is expected to be? If Larry Brown coaching, I can see things working out in the end, but anyone can plainly see that Steve does not like this offense. He doesn't like it, and it shows in his play on the court against good teams. Good teams force the Rockets into close situations late in the game. These are the situations in which the point guard must be able to lead his team through the storm. Steve couldn't do it under Rudy, and it's safe to say he's not doing it now too. As for Maurice Taylor, Kurt Thomas is a better player. Kurt Thomas can defend well, and he has a nice offensive game around the basket. Weatherspoon is a bigger body than Boki who will be get more boards when replacing Jim Jackson off the bench. The point of contention is probably the PG spot in which Ward and Eisley are the players. I don't make this trade the coach was anyone except for Van Gundy. Van Gundy has worked with Ward for many years. Ward will execute the system. Eisley is better than Moochie. If Van Gundy doesn't think Ward is of any use anymore, then the trade shouldn't be made.
You do bring up a good point that may be easily overlooked with the proposed trade - the first round draft pick. Right now, the Knicks are the 6th worst team in the league. I can't see that improving too much....anywhere between 5th and 13th sounds right to me, cause despite their 6th worst record, they are only 10th in the East and could sneak into the playoffs, especially if they add an explosive player like Steve (though Steve's never made it before and the Knicks wouldn't have a great roster still). That said, if there is no draft restrictions (i.e. - if the Knicks luckily get the number 1 pick, we still get to keep it), I'd give the trade serious thought. Now, I don't think Yao signs elsewhere. The way the CBA is set up, only the Rockets could offer him the most money - he could get a max dael with G.State but it wouldn't be as much as his deal with the Rockets could be. Plus, I think Yao likes it here so far. You never know though. The reason I do the deal is because, like DaDa, I think there are just too many shortcomings in our backcourt tandem's games. I think Steve is great and all, but I don't think the PG spot has to be one of strength to win (see any championship team since the Pistons) and I don't see Steve ever turning into the "floor general" that would make this team go - fast breaks, offensive sets, etc. All that said, if and when you finally get to the point, as I am close to, that you are willing to explore Steve Francis trades, you have to see if there is something better than this out there. IMO, the first thing you do is ask the Nets if they'll trade you Jason Kidd (they're not getting over that final hump and have had a "difficult" start to the year). I doubt they will though, so a trade like this is intriguing. It would be a tough call if I was GM and had decided to start exploring Francis trade opportunities - you get no true superstar in return.
Spacepimp, you're right. New York will also give up their next 1st round draft pick which should be a lottery pick. Two lottery picks can be used to trade up to get maybe a long-term option at point guard. I hope the Rockets make the playoffs, so all this will be moot.
I definitely think we should trade Francis, but I think a trade like this should be the last resort. First you have to try to get a star player in return, like a Brand, O'Neal, or Pierce. I would love to trade Steve for Brand straight up. If you can't get an established star, then you look at getting some young talent plus a contract, something like Tyson Chandler plus Eddie Robinson or Caron Butler plus Brian Grant. Only after those types of options are explored should a trade like this one be considered.
I wouldn't go as far as saying he is a dud, but I would never ever consider giving up talent like Francis for him. For Chandler, I might consider it (because the thought of a Yao Ming/Chandler frontline sounds fascinating!), but not for Butler.
Oh, and of course not straight up, we would have to get a lot more, including a very good PG and picks.
Any trade with New York, aside from at least two first rounders -- one of which would be unconditional in 2004 -- we would have to get M. Lampe as well. From the little I saw of him, he could become as good as or better than Tyson Chandler.
Charvo, you have made some interesting points.I can understand the Knicks wanting Francis and possibly even take Mo but I don't see anyone taking Moochie. I also don't see the advantage of picking up Eisley because he hasn't been successful as a PG. I agree with thumbs getting Lampe could pay off in the long run for us.
DENIED...We do not need anymore NEW YORK GARBAGE HERE...WHY DON'T YOU THROW IN SHANDON ANDERSON ALSO?
Knicks take Moochie because that's how the deal is structured if they want Francis. Eisley is nothing to be excited about, but he's better than Moochie. I've seen enough to know that. Keep in mind that this deal does not go down until after the season is over because Steve Francis BYC effect does not expire till then. As much as some fans here love Steve, Steve should be traded if he cannot take the Rockets to the playoffs in his 5th year. Even Hakeem had some success by his 5th year. It might be safe to say that most prior dominant NBA players have taken their teams to the playoffs by his 5th year. It's time to cut the cord if he can't get it done here. If these new players don't work, all the contracts EXPIRE AFTER 2005-2006. There are no long-term committments. Yao will get his criticism too when the time passes. Don't let the situation morph into an Eddie Jones in Heat scenario. Heat are willing to unload this guy for a rack of basketballs, but he makes max contract money. Max contract money players are supposed to lead teams to playoffs. Eddie Jones hasn't since he's been there. Look at Allan Houston with that monster contract. Where does Steve fit into all this? Rockets as an organization knows this is a very important time in its history. Fan indifference is probably at a 10 year high.
francis/moochie/wilks mobley/piatkowski jackson/nachbar/padgett/griffin cato/taylor/griffin/ford yao/amaechi right now i think our payroll is about 49 million... yeah this would be like our desperation RESET BUTTON move...the trigger for a restart...i don't know..i would do it if we don't mkae the playoffs but i think we can make the playoffs at least. i bet our management is exploring all possibilities right now.
