How tall is Allen Iverson (the leagues leading scorer)? ------------------ Liberals favor using artificial means to alter the normal to a state which facilitates and justifies how irresponsible they want to be
I hear he closer to 5' 10 3/4 inches than 6 foot. ------------------ Rarely is the question asked: Guns kill squirrels than REDRUM to fools across the nation?
As much as Cuttino's 19.5 pts/game contributes to the team, the more it takes away. Let me explain... At 6'4 (i hear he's more close to 6'2ish), he wont score much more than 19.5pts/game. So with his age and last year's stats, his stock is at its highest. Cuttino and Francis are both essentially smaller guards who play on the perimeter but can also slash. With Francis being the better of the two and capable of playing SG, Cuttino as a SG is moreoreless irrelevant...if we can get in return a better SF, or PF, or C back. I'm all for the Rockets packaging Cuttino Mobley along with 3 of our 1st round draft picks in exchange for C. Webber if that is at all possible. But more realistically, if we can trade Mobley and 1 or 2 of our 1st round picks to move into the picks #3-7, i m all for it. Hypothetically, if we could get Hawks' 3# pick, we could draft Battier who can contribute right away offensively and defensively. Other than that, there's the two Europeans Gasol and Radmanovic that everyone seems to be pretty high about...and then the HS players. We've all seen the tremendous leap the Mavs have made with the maturity of a TALL multi-dementional SF like Nowitzki. and also the impressive skills of T-MAC who plays multiple positions. Frankly, i m not optimistic that our 3 mid to low first round picks will have much impact. So why dont we package in Cat and some of our draft picks and find a way to get a player like Rashard Lewis, Webber, A. Davis, or one of the Draft Studs of the upper first round. ------------------
this is just so stupid. best backcourt combo in years and we wanna break it up. these 2 guys are the ONLY reason why c-webb is considering the rockets. okay? honestly, would you prefer a snow and iverson or a mobley and francis? and we dont even know wether francis is all that good if his primary concern is shooting. maybe he's best at 20 7 and 6. ------------------
I'd love to trade Mobley for Chicago's #4 pick (w/ a condition of Cato-Miller trade later) to get Curry or Diop. BENEFITS: 1.)after these two trades:Mobley-#4; Cato-Miller we'll save an extra $3.5 Mil to sign both CWebb($12M) and the Dream($5M). 2.) a.)we trade a talanted 2 guard for a much needed talanted center b.)we keep a decent player(S. Anderson) c.)we still have a talanted player to back-up the 2 spot(Francis) FACTS: 1.)Francis is the only "untouchable" 2.)Francis is our Franchise player. Not Mobley, nor Francis&Mobley. Just because they're good friends doesn't means they're equal valued. Mobley is not a player you build around. COMPARISON: 1.)keeping Mobley and sign CWebb outright will leaves us 8 players and 3 picks. the best lineup we can have will be assuming we trade up #13 and #18 picks to get J. Johnson and then draft T. Hassell at #23) Cato, Collier CWebb, K.T. Johnson, Williams, Langhi, Bullard Mobley, Hassell Francis, Norris good but not a championship team. 2.) trade Mobley for #4 pick and Cato-Miller will gives us A.)$ to sign CWebb & Dream B.)Anderson will be back C.)we get Diop(or Curry) D.)we get B. Miller E.)get rid of Cato's contract lineup could be: Dream, Diop, Miller CWebb, K.T. Collier Johnson, Williams, Langhi, Bullard Anderson, Hassell Francis, Norris A title contender ------------------ Yes I'm new here
nO, NO, NO, NO, NO! MAKING A HOLE TO FILL ANOTHER IS NOT A WAY TO FILL IT! hOW MANY TEAMS WOULD LOVE TO HAVE OUR BACKCOURT DUO. AS MUCH AS MOBLEY IMPROVED LAST SEASON, i DON'T THINK HE HAS REACHED HIS PEAK YET. WITH HIS LONG ARMS, HIS DEFENSE HAS IMPROVED DRAMATICALLY TO THE POINT WHERE WE SAW HIS EFFECTIVENESS ON THE 6'6" HIGH LEAPING VINCE CARTER LAST SEASON...HIS OFFENSE GAME IS SPECTACULAR, REBOUNDING, AND ALL. I SEE GREAT, GREAT THINGS WITH THE TANDEM IN THE NEAR FUTURE. WE WILL GET THE FRONTCOURT TOGETHER, BUT NOT BY TRADING THE CAT/WINK SHOW!!! SORRY FOR THE SHOUTING, BUT I THINK THIS TRADE MOBLEY TALK IS SO FULL OF CRAP IT'S NOT EVEN FUNNY!!!! ------------------ Rarely is the question asked: Guns kill squirrels than REDRUM to fools across the nation?
I have to second all the comments expressing outrage. This is the best backcourt in the league right now, and it can only get better. Yeah, both Cat and Steve need to play better D, but as many have noted, really good defenders in the paint help that a lot. It is hard for them to guard well on the perimeter when there are only big marshmellows in the paint behind them. There are few personnel moves I would say will not happen, but trading Cat or Steve just ain't gonna happen. ------------------
The people saying trade Mobley in a package deal for Webber seem to be forgetting the only reason Webber is even consider us is because of our backcourt combo. And trading Mobley for the #4 pick in a weak draft guarantees that 1.)Webber will not consider us since we traded away one of our main go-to guys and 2.)Francis will bolt the first chance that he could, because we screwed up a good thing for an unproven rookie in a weak (as far as impact players) draft. As for Mobley not being a player you build around, we're building around our backcourt, not just one player. What has Johnson and Diop shown you that would make you think they would make us a title contender, and any better then last year's 45 win team? Why would Webber want to come to a team that traded away one of their top 2 scorers and replaced him with 3 unproven rookies. That has rebuilding written all over it. ------------------ "I'm not here to protect my reputation, I'm here to make my reputation! Mama Barkley didn't raise no chumps!" - Charles Barkley [This message has been edited by RocksMillenium (edited June 17, 2001).]
This isnt meant to be any type of hostile exchange or attack on the Mobley Loyalists. Its only a discussion, so i apologize if any of yall interpreted that way. Some of yall are missing the point i was trying to say (its just thoughts anyhow only meant for discussion and feedback) 1. The majority of people on this board think that Webber is almost definitely coming to the Rockets and does not have a clear understanding of Salary Cap/Collective Bargaining. Just because we are under the salary cap, if Webber's intent alone was for money, Houston's free capspace does not make up for the amount of money he could get in a Sign & Trade Max Contract. So this whole trade Mobley for Draft Picks is based on the assumption and basic fact that Webber WONT be coming here. If Webber is going anywhwere, it WILL be a SIGN and Trade. So even if he comes here thru a SIGN/TRADE, we'll lose Mobley that way too. 2. 2001 is NOT A WEAK DRAFT. If you read any of the reports. It is a strong draft. only drawback is that people arent sure Which of the player will turn out to be the best while in the past drafts, it was obvious that the Duncan was the best and #1 pick or that Iverson was the best for #1 pick. And Mobley is not a UNTRADABLE or FRANCHISE player. If Horry and Cassell were Tradable, how can you say Mobley is. ------------------
Concerning the worries about Francis walking out on the Rockets if Mobley gets traded: All the NBA players have best/close friends in the NBA. Have you heard any of them walking out on a MAX contract just because their best friend wasnt on the team? What do you think rules in the NBA with these players, Friends or Money? THe "MAX" in a MAX contract stands for Maximum Dollars not Maximum Friends. Houston is not freakin Vancouver or Toronto, why is everyone so insecure. Barkley, Cassell, Horry all still live in Sugarland/Houston all after they have retired/traded. Players love Houston. Steve Francis will not give up on a Max $70+ Million contract because Mobley is not on the team. Just for reference..from the '85 - '88 Bulls, Michael Jordan and Charles Oakley were the best of friends on the team. Oakley got traded to the Knicks the following year...did His Majesty MJ request a trade because his best friend got traded? Someone please name one example of a player demeanding a trade because their friend got traded. ------------------
KLON-12.6 million will be Webber's base max, if the salary cap is 42 million or below. If it's higher it is 30% of the cap, which will only be slightly greater than 12.6 mill. Anyone can offer that. The only difference between us straight signing CWebb and sign and trading for him would be 6 year contract vs. 7 year contract, and an annual raise of 12.5% (1.575 mill if assumed 12.6 base), rather than 10% (1.26 mill if assumed 12.6 base every year. That's 315K a year, over the next 5 years the difference would be a grand 1.575 million. Peanuts. Note: I'm using a 6 year contract for sign and trade as it can't be compared 7 years vs. 6 years For an example of how much it'd take to get Sacramento to S/T him to us to get that extra 1.5 mill, and the extra year if he was going to sign here anyway, TMac was signed and traded for a single conditional pick. That sets the precedent so it shouldn't take any more. Especially not Mobley. As for Cuttino, he's not untouchable, but it'll take something good to get him. He's worth more than the #4 pick in the draft, though. It'd take an "I can't say no to" offer. Anyhow personally, I think this past year the Sixers' backcourt of Iverson, Snow, McKie was better than the Rockets' Francis, Mobley, Moochie. Last but not least, those who claim the best buds argument w/Francis as a reason not to trade Mobley are also off. Francis understands it's a business. As long as he's not surprised by any deal (ie-he's informed), and it improves us as a team, he shouldn't and wouldn't care. We have him for at least 3 more years if we so choose. After his Vancouver incident, he wouldn't want the bad pub. he'd receive in a 2nd trade demand in 3 years. ------------------ "I think alot of people find Cato's game to be very offensive." -aelliott, comparing the offensive skills of Kelvin Cato and Michael Olowokandi
We also do not want bad publicity. Cat signed with us below market value and as a backup when he could start elsewhere. To trade him no would screw our chances of getting others to show loyalty to the franchise. Not to mention the fact that he is the teams go to guy and since moving into the starting lineup, the leading scorer. In addition he puts the other team into foul trouble. Trading Mobley would be a stupid idea. Trading Francis would be a better idea but I would not do that either. Those two are untouchables, everything else can be negotiated. Unless of course Shaq or Duncan is offered, but that is really beyond the realm of probability. ------------------ What's a Nubian?
Those are very good calculations there Nikestrad. You mention the precedent set on Sign & Trade by T-Mac. But in Sign&Trade, there really arent Standards that are followed because too much variants are factored within. Granted that Sacramento is set on doin a Sign&Trade, would they pass up on sending Webber to Pacers for Jermaine O'neal and Austin Croshere (a reported proposal) just because in the T-Mac sign & Trade, Raptors got Scrubs. Sign & Trade depends on the number of potential competitive suitors. Even at that, i really dont think Webber will be coming here. Rockets w/Webber doesnt put us over Lakers or even Spurs for that matter. Its Sac or Eastern Conference for webber. ------------------
Nikestrad- Those calculations would only work if we pretty much renounce the rights to Hakeem, Moochie, and Maurice. ------------------
klon, 1st off if we sign and trade for cwebb, it wont involve mobley, cwebb wouldnt be that stupid,we have other pieces if necessary like mo,shandon,kt to involve 2nd-no team out east has what it takes to get cwebb, lets run down the options ny-unless houston changes his stance, they will give sac nothing but awful cap fillers ind-only way this happens is if cwebb changes his stance on lifestyle, howeverdo have decent s and t options orl-wont trade hill, thus wont happen-plus their more interested in antonio davis thus it comes down to us or sacto and if u take away cwebb from both teams we have the better nucleus and can build on it through our great management in conclusion, it all depends on cwebbs city preference-meaning if he has changed his stance on sacto he stays if not i see him in houston-and thats not being a homer also mobley and francis is an awesome young backcourt and the rockets wont break it up ------------------ How Sweet It Is! How Sweet It Is! Gene Peterson on the rockets winning the 1995 championship over the Orlando Magic
KLON, it's not Sac's choice on where they sign and trade Webber, it's Webber's choice. Sac can't say "Oh, sorry Chris, but Indiana gave us a better offer, so we're trading you there, even though you would rather be in Houston." If we have enough capspace to sign him outright, and Webber announces that he wants to go to Houston, then Sac-town pretty much has to take what we offer or risk getting nothing in return. ------------------ I always thought "With my talent, it's only a matter of time before I'm discovered". Now I think "With my talent, it's only a matter of time before I'm found out". [This message has been edited by Behad (edited June 17, 2001).]
what is all this? i leave for a month..and come back to find junior members thinking that we should trade cat for a draft pick?!?!?! WTF is this BS? That's garbage to be trying to draft a rookie center/forward, who may not pan out to play with the intensity and heart that Cat has. That 19.5 maximum scoring is BS as well..where in the hell does it say that a person of 6'4 can score a maximum of 19.5 points a game? I've never seen that manual, can you loan it to me when you get the time? KEEP MOBLEY KEEP MOBLEY KEEP MOBLEY! Btw, it's hard to come by the chemistry that cuttino and steve have..you don't go around trading that away for draft picks. (stupid) -elie17 ------------------ Oh.. so this is how you add a signature huh? coo coo.
What's so stupid about Unproven High 1st round draft picks. Kevin Garnett was unproven, Kobe was unproven, VC was unproven when all of them were drafted. Everyone thats ever in the draft can be called "unproven" excluding the Duncans and Shaqs of the Draft... The whole Webber thing is just all wishful thinking. He's not coming. The Rockets will just have to improve through other avenues. I m just not for remaining stagnant and 3 mid-low 1st draft picks on our team for next year. We'll be competing for the last playoff spot... Personally, i dont think Francis & Mobley are better than Nash & Finley. Then there's the Suns with Kidd/Marion/Penny and the Wolves that we'll have to get past first for the last playoff spot. Just think Mobley is not the answer, as good of a season as he had last year. ------------------
Klon are you Shandon Anderson? AND Francis a shoot 1st PG?I think Francis is playing the point as good as anyone can and probably needs to shoot more and should never go to the SG spot except when him and Mooch is on the court at the same time! ------------------ AKA Rendiggler Sam Clancy...Sam Clancy...Sam Clancy...Sam Clancy...Sam Clancy
