OK, if you wouldn't give up Francis alone for anyone in the league, then you are a bigger homer than I thought possible. There is one player in the league better than Duncan, maybe two. That would be Shaq and maybe Kevin Garnett. No one else is even close. In a sign and trade where Duncan has decided on Houston and SA has no choice, I would do Cato/Taylor/Griffin for Duncan. And quite frankly, I think if Griff pans out like expected, SA would too. A player with the potential of Griffin fixes a lot of problems right away for them. A team with Francis, Mobley and Duncan is a championship contender. It has holes, but it is a contender. Even though Griffin may have an upside as high as or higher than Duncan (remains to be seen), you still move the potential for the sure thing if the opportunity is there. But I sure would hate to move Griff. Given the scenario laid out, I would be offering something like Cato/Taylor/Marcus and picks before I drop Griff into the package.
Duncan is the most efficient player in the league. Who said Cato, Taylor and Griffin was too much? I'm not sure what you would trade, then. T Brown and that half-eaten bag of doritos? Duncan/fa KT/draft pick Rice/Draft pick Mobely/Torres Francis/Norris Collier/langhi/brown go, we keep the next two picks and get a fa big man. Rice is off the books, too, then, right? You have some addtional room to buy player who want to play with your top guys. Anyhow, your core is still Francis/Mobley, and you add Duncan. All good, except I'm not sure Tim would like playing in their world. I'm pretty sure he'd prefer a Jason Kidd or Andre Miller, to the rox playground stuff. Would he blow his cool if that crossover/behind the back stuff was out on the perimeter while he was set down low?
I'm sorry I have a passionate love for the Rockets and it's players. I happen to be a huge fan of Stevie's and I predict that he will become one of the best of all time. However, you compare Duncan to Francis. You must be very clever to do so because they play totally different game styles and are at different positions. If wanting my favourite player to stay on my favourite team is being a homer, then I guess I am a proud homer. As for you, if Duncan is better then anyone on this team and you like him so much, follow the Spurs.
Okay, okay. If everybody is going to get crazy, how about this: trade Steve and Cat (they're inseparable) to Golden State for Richardson and their #1 to get Wagner. Wagner and Richardson would be a scoring machine. However, I'M NOT SERIOUS. Just adding a little fuel to the fire.
See, I deal in the real. I don't try to propose one sided Rockets trades just to get a response. I think all things being considered, it would be a good trade for both. SA would have a young and rising 4 in griffin and a so called center in their rebuilding mode after they lose Robinson and Steve Smith. What we would get is a proven big man to go along with our 2 guards, after that, all we rerally need is role players which we seem to find easy. Collier, Thomas,and Morris all fit that bill. Basically what we'll be doing is the same thing the Clippers did this draft yr with Brand and Chandler. The Rockets are in the same boat. Instead of the Clippers getting another young player and waiting for developement, they got a proven young veteran that still can get better. Now if coming into next season Griffin starts, which I doubt, you can gauge how fast he can become a really good player, but if he's playing about 25 minutes like this yr, he will not develop into the type of impact player until about his 4th yr. It would be hard to shoot this down if when the time comes Duncan was 30yrs old or something it would be different but Duncan wouldn't be 28 until the end of the end of 2003- 2004 season. Anyone who says Griffin ceiling is higher than Duncan doesn't really watch basketball. The only thing Griffin would ever be better than Duncan is probably 3 pt shooting, but who cares if you 4 can't shoot 3's. Its just about scenerios, nottearing someone else reson why they don't like the trade.
Okay, everything on the board should be serious. However, Duncan will never leave S.A. if Peter Holt has anything to do with it. That said, Duncan knows the only place he will be more comfortable than S.A. is Florida. Can we say: "It.s Magic." Duncan is not a titty-bar man and he enjoys swimming in an ocean without tar (see Galveston). If I were in his shoes, Tracy McGrady and Mike Miller would make more sense. That doesn't mean I'm not a 100% Rocketeer. I'm just being objective.
Sorry Migg. I took your original quote about not trading Francis one for one for anyone in the league as being from the perspective of Rockets management rather than a personal perspective. I can definitely understand why someone would not want their favorite player to get traded and that's cool. Francis is also my favorite player and I do not want to see him traded, either. However, objectively, he is not the best player in this league and I don't see how he ever will be. Top five, top ten maybe. But not the best as long as shaq is around. Course, none of that matters. This thread isn't talking about trading Francis, it's talking about trading Griffin if Duncan was dropped into your lap. If the deal that is being talked were to replace Griffin with Francis, I don't think I would do it. Mobley with Griffin, I would have to think really hard about it. Ideally, since it is a sign and trade, you swing the deal without moving any of Francis, Mobley and Griffin. But, that is not the discussion either.
People Duncan doesn't equal championship, if he did the Spurs would be flowing with championships. Why would you trade Francis for Duncan? We get Duncan, and then don't have any guards, or cap space to get those guards. This team could easily become the early 90s Rockets, Hakeem and a bunch of useless spare parts. If Griffin plays to his potential DON'T trade him. Trading him could be akin to trading Kevin Garnett. Who do you think the T-Wolves would be looking right now if they had traded Kevin Garnett for say David Robinson who was at his peak in the 90s? They would have a 6 year window and it's back to rebuilding, meanwhile Kevin Garnett would be tearing it up. What does trading Francis or Griffin for Duncan get you? You trade your franchise player for an older franchise player? This team has the guard play, all they need is frontcourt help. Griffin probably provides that, and he's cheap right now meaning Houston can afford to get MORE help. You get team Duncan and you give up depth AND cap space, and the rebuilding process is stunted and at the same time Houston isn't a title contender. You're stuck in limbo, with the potential to steal a playoff berth, but nothing more. The rebuilding process is perfect, we have our backcourt, we have our young stud big man, a solid center, and a couple of quality PFs. All we need is depth and good health and chemistry and this team is in good shape.
Let's make sure everyone knows what's going on. In 2003, the Spurs are in MAJOR re-building mode. I think, currently, only 2 players have contracts in 2003 there. Forget "TD demands a trade". Let's think "The Rockets offer". Griffin and Cato for Duncan I think it's useless debating this because Griffin could turn out to be anything from Hakeem to Horry.
I think its safe to say there will never be another Hakeem. Show me a player that is or will have 20000 pts,10000rebs and in the top ten in the nba history in both steals and blocks. There isn't one playing now and unless someone comes along with his skill level there won't ever be another. I don't think Griffin will be like Horry, I can see him more like Walker or a young Coleman which is a player that will double double but shoots a horrible fg% and fall back on his jumper as opposed to inside post play. I just threw out a sequence to see what other people thought about it. To say Duncan couldn't or wouldn't make this team a instant contender is foolish. It not to far conceived to say other than Duncan and Robinson that the Rockets have more talent than the Spurs. Giving up Taylor ,Cato,and Griffin wouldn't be too much for getting a 27yr old top 5 nba player. As far as the Garnett idea, he may be more versitile than Duncan, but Duncan scores in the 4th qt, not run away from the ball.
