does TE means, that we can exceed cap limit in trade? i.e. we can trade A. Griffin for Stackhouse? salaries don't match, but TE allows us to do that?
pretty much... rocket player's salary for team B player whose salary is roughly 6.9 million more. so you "suppose" to be getting a player that is worth paying an extra 7 mill.
Yes, AGriff @ ~$800k for Stack @ $7m is possible with the $6.99m TE. At the time of the Rice/Amaechi trade, the Rockets were above the cap and Utah was below the cap. Hence, Utah was able to take on the difference between Rice and Amaechi....~$6.99m. Although generally referred to as "trade exception", it is in reaity the completion of that trade without the +/- 15% + 100k assigned player exception (APE). Of interest is the fact that whomever makes a deal with the Rockets also gets an exception to complete their trade. In the AGriff-Stackhouse example, the Wizards would get a $6.2m TE. Since WAS is right at the cap, they would then have to decide whether to use their salary cap exceptions or take the $6.2m in cap space from Stack's departing salary since you can't use both cap space and cap exceptions...one or the other would have to be renounced. Utah already took the hit when they took on Rice. That's the reason we got the TE is the first place. Utah was under the cap and could take on the extra salary.
Thanks for the clear-up Gater, I still wasn't exactly sure how the TE worked. Do you work for the NBA or do you just know all about #s and rules of the NBA?
What has been mentioned is not exactly the case....you cannot use the trade exception in conjunction with one of your players to take on a higher salaried player...(Hypothetical Example) The Rockets could not send Francis and the exception to Minnesota for Garnett....What teams do is send a draft pick of some type and the exception for a player on the other team, in essence the Glenn Rice Trade has not been completed until the other player is brought in via trade. This was how it was explained by a member of the Rockets front office.
I thought we had already determined that TE will most likely be our next starting small forward? Why do we wanna give up on TE without ever seeing him on the court in a Rockets uni???
Not true. There was some incorrect information along those lines in a J. Feigan article, but it's not correct. Here's a pretty easy way to prove that point. The Rockets traded Shandon Anderson in a three way deal where they receved Glenn Rice in return. Rice made alot more than Anderson, so the only way that we were able to do that deal is by using the trade exception that we had received in the Olajuwon trade. Anderson + the exception = Rice Here's a link to an ESPN article that reports the deal and the use of the exception. http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2001/0810/1237668.html Your example scenario was correct though, just for different reasons. You can't trade Francis and the exception for Garnett because Garnett makes a little over $10M more than the combined value of Francis and the exception.
I had understood that the trade exception would expire if not used within a 12 month period. Is this true?
Yes. This may be valuable to teams who are just below the cap and would like to get further below the cap, or teams who are just paying too much. For example, the Suns would like to get further under the cap, and the Grizzlies would love to save some salary.
Can we use both the TE and APE in the same transaction? For example, if we assume for this hypothetical that Francis' salary figure this summer is $11 million, and that the TE is $7 million, can we trade him straight up for a player or package of players making $19 million?
JBC - Your example works as long as the incoming contracts are less than $11.5m (SF3) + $6.99m (TE). That's $18.45m. You can use the TE and the APE in a trade but you can't combine them for the same player(s). In your example, we couldn't start with $21.6m and take out the APE (85%) to get to 18.45m and use the TE to make up the difference. But here's where you can use both in the same trade.... If the Rox wanted to send SF3 and Mo T to ORL, they are sending $19.8m in contracts. If ORL sent back TMac, Juwan, Gooden and DeClerq that's $25.8m and doesn't work using the APE (85% of $25.8m = $21.99m). However, the Rox and Magic could agree to swap those players and do it this way... Francis @ $11.5m + $6.2 m of TE = Tmac + Gooden = $17.7m. Taylor @ $8.45m = Howard + DeClerq $8.12m (meets the APE of +/- 115% + 100k). July 14th...and Francis's BYC status ends on June 30th. Yes. The Rockets had 1 year from the date of the Rice-Amaechi trade to "complete" the trade.
Re-read that article...the trade exception was traded to the Mavericks not the Knicks....the Rockets didn't get any players from the Mavericks...they got rights to a 2nd round draft pick....Ask Dennis Lindsay or CD...you can't use the exception in conjunction with another player....
Sorry, but you and Dennis Lindsay are drop-dead wrong. If you want, aelliott can give you the exact Section, Article and paragraph of the current NBA Collective Bargaining Agreement that references the non-simultaneous completion of a trade. Other than salary considerations, there is absolutely nothing that would prohibit an additional two players from each team being included in the deal at the time that Rice and Amaechi were swapped simultaneously. Therefore, those same two contracts can be swapped later non-simultaneously.
im slightly confused but thats ok... whats not ok is if we dont get a good player out of that glen rice mess.
You're not understanding how the trade rules work. If you are over the cap, then when you make a trade, the salaries that you receive in return must be within 15% of what you sent out + $100K. That extra 15% + $100K that you are allowed to increase your payroll by is called the "Assigned Player Exception". Each team has to be able to account for the difference in outbound vs inbound salaries. If you take on more money, then you have to be able to cover the difference in cap space or with the Assigned Player Exception. All that matters is if each team in the deal can cover any additional salary that they take on (you are always allowed to take back less slary). It doesn't matter if we made a two team trade or a twenty team trade. We were over the cap and we sent out approximately $4.5M in salary (Anderson). Because we were over the cap, the most the Rockets were allowed to take back was 115% of Anderson's salary + $100K. That amount is nowhere near the almost $10M that Rice was making. Without a trade exception the Rockets can't make their portion of the trade and that deal couldn't be made. As far as "trading the exception", there is no such thing. In fact, as Gater has already pointed out, it isn't really even an exception. The NBA CBA refers to it as a non-simultaneous trade. Trade Exception is just a handy term to make it more understandable. If you read the CBA, you won't find the term "Trade Exception" anywhere in the text. You get a trade exception when you take back less salary in a deal. With the exception, you are then allowed to exceed the normal trade rules by the amount of the exception. So, by definition, if I use the trade exception to allow me to take back more salary than I sent out, then some other team in the deal has to be taking back less salary than they sent out. Because of that, that team gets a trade exception because they took back less salary (assuming that team is over the cap). It is commonly refered to as trading the exception, but it's not really traded. The fact that the other team gets an exception is just a by product of the fact that the team that used their trade exception took on extra salary, so the other team took back less. Bottom line, the Rice Deal was a three team deal, not two individual deals. From a Rockets perspective, all that matters is how much total salary we sent out vs how much total salary we took back. You can't send out $4.5M and take back $10M unless you've got cap space or a trade exception. Period. Look at it this way, if you did think of the Rice deal as being broken down into two pieces: Hou-Dal and Hou-NYK, then neither one of those pieces would work. If Houston, just got a draft pick from Dallas and sent nothing to the Mavs, then why would the Mavs get an exception? In that scenario no salary was traded, so no exception. The bigger problem is how do you make the Houston - NY piece work? How do you trade Anderson for a guy that makes twice as much money? The answer is you can't. They were all one deal. From Houston's point of view it was Anderson + Exception = Rice.
Maybe this will help clarify things.Here's the math behind the Rice trade. As you can see, once we used the exception, the deal worked cap wise for all three teams. Dallas --------- Salary out: Eisley $4.7M Salary in: Bogues $1.5M Net Change: -$3.2M Always allowed to take back less salary, so deal is legal from Dallas' end. Because Dallas took back less salary, they get a trade exception for $3.2M. NY ---- Salary out: Rice $8.8M, Bogues $1.5M for a total of $10.3M Salary in: Anderson $5.5M, Eisley $4.78M for a total of $10.28M Net Change: -$0.02M Always allowed to take back less salary, so the deal is legal from NY's end. Houston ----------- Salary out: Anderson $5.5M Salary in: Rice $8.8M Net Change: +$3.3M Rice's salary isn't within 15% + 100K of Anderson's salary, so Houston's part of the deal doesn't work. Houston covered the $3.3M difference with the TE that they got in the Olajuwon trade. Once we used the trade exeption, the Net Change on Houston's end is $0, so the deal works. See how it works? You just calculate each team's change in salary. If the deal works for every team, then it's a legal trade. * For the purpose of a trade, draft rights to a player (Kyle Hill) count $0, so I'm leaving him out of the calculation.
so in some of your opinions.... what teams will this TE be most usefull for? in other words, who may be our best trade partners for a trade involving AG and the TE? the suns and grizz were noted earlier in the thread. any other teams come to mind?
