Kelvin Cato – Maybe the most tradable commodity on the team. If Yao Ming continues to learn the game at his current pace and if Jason Collier continues to play well in reserve then Cato is no more than an unneeded asset. Starting at some point last year Cato started rebounding the ball. This year he has played good defense, blocked shots and rebounded very well. There are many teams that need a defensive, shot blocking, rebounding center. Orlando maybe? How about Seattle, Dallas or Toronto? Kenny Thomas – Kenny was the one player that was most likely to head out of Houston by many this past summer. Kenny is a very good one on one player. Against power forwards in the post he has been very successful using his speed to create an advantage. Kenny plays good defense and has been a good rebounder this year. With Eddie Griffin and Mo Taylor holding down the 4 spot Kenny is left to try to nail down the 3 spot and he has had mixed reviews. Kenny would be a great pick up for some team if he does not work out at the small forward spot for the Rockets. Moochie Norris – Moochie has made a ton of bad decisions this year but he does have a great first step and has historically been very good at driving and then passing back out to the shooters. His defense is not very good but he has had some very clutch performances the last few years hitting some big time game winners. I don’t think the Rockets can afford to trade him at this point but if Tito Maddox proves that he is the answer at the back up point guard position then Moochie must go. Only problem is that he may not have a lot of value to other teams considering his contract. Glen Rice – I would think age and the size of his contract would make him almost un-tradable. If he can continue to nail his outside shots like he has the last two games he could become very valuable to the Rockets while they wait for Bostjan Nachbar to become an NBA starter. Rice might be a lot more valuable to a team next season that is looking to clear cap space but for this year I think we can only hope that he continues the hot shooting that he has displayed the against Dallas and Washington. Cuttino Mobley – For those just dying to get rid of the Cat consider this, the Rockets searched for 10 years trying to find a player or two that could nail the open jumper or punish teams for sagging down on Hakeem Olajuwan. I say again…they searched for 10 years. We would have won a few more championships if we would have had a Dale Ellis type of player that could nail an open jumper to keep teams honest when playing against Dream. Now we are starting to dump the ball into the post to a player (Yao Ming) that will command double and triple teams and is willing to pass. We need someone like Cat that can hit the mid range jumper, slash to the basket to receive a nice pass from Yao Ming or hit the three point shot. With the ball going into the post so early in the offense now we will not see Cat, Steve or even Moochie dribble away the shot clock as much as before. Of Cats 8 shots against Dallas several were open jumpers that the zone defense forced him to take, they were also shots that he normally makes. Put Cat on the market and see how many teams will line up to make a bid for one of the best scoring guards in the league. Mo Taylor – Certainly he is necessary to the team if the Rockets end up trading Thomas. I would think that there would be a lot of teams that would be interested in him though. He is not the all around player that Thomas is but he brings something special to the table that might make him a better player off of the bench than Thomas. He can change a game with his offense…especially his mid range jumper that could be huge in busting zone defenses. Because of his injury and contract I would think Thomas would be a lot easier to trade. IMO Mo Taylor is should be a keeper. Jason Collier – If we end up trading Big Kev then I think Collier is someone we need to keep. He has shown a little something in the games he has played this year. The offensive touch that he was suppose to have has finally surfaced and he looks like he could be productive in a backup role as a center or a power forward. He probably would not bring as much in a trade as Cato but he is a seven footer with some size so some team may be willing to give something for him since he probably has a friendly contract for a seven footer. I am not advocating a trade right now but with our rotation starting to take shape some people with real value will begin to find a lot of time watching games. Rudy has already stated that he would like a rotation that consists of 7 to 8 players. That means that there is some value going to waste on the bench. Starters: Francis – untouchable Mobley - ? I guess it depends on who you talk to Rice – too old and too expensive to trade Eddie Griffin – almost untouchable Yao Ming – untouchable Bench: Kenny Thomas – Has Rice’s shooting put Kenny back on the bench for good? If so then it may be time to find a new home for the Rockets most versatile player. Mo Taylor – Instant offense off of the bench and he is a low post player with size. Moochie Norris – Makes too many mental mistakes and still tries to play one on one with his dribbling and driving to the basket when he is in the game. Not a good defender. He is getting fewer minutes with each passing game. It seems like the development of Titto Maddox will determine what his role with the team is. Juaquin Hawkins – almost untouchable…That’s right he is almost untouchable. How could another team come up with a deal to get him? He has the contract of a scrub that might not make it past his first ten-day contract but he plays like a cross between Mario Ellie and Michael Cooper! He is probably not ever going to be a long term starter but he hits timely shots and his defense can change the tempo of a game. He is the perfect role player for any team and could be a valuable commodity for a championship team. He almost never seems to make mistakes and he is an outstanding passer. Terence Morris – Great size and athleticism but he has probably not shown enough to the rest of the league to peak anyone’s interest. After a very good pre-season the Rockets would probably like to see more so they would know if he could turn into the proto-typical small forward that they have always wanted. Tito Maddox – He is not going anywhere until the Rockets can determine if he can replace Moochie Norris. Could he be turn into the Rockets version of Bobby Jackson? We may get to find out. Bostjan Nachbar – Another player that is not going anywhere anytime soon. The Rockets would not have spent the 15th pick in the draft if they did not think he would turn into a major contributor. He could turn into the Rockets starter at the 3 in another year. Rotation for the next few months? Back Court: Francis, *Cat, Hawkins Front court: Yao Ming, Griffin, MoT, Rice and KT Spot duty but not apart of the regular rotation: *Moochie and TMo *Roles will obviously be different with Cat on I/R.
Good Post I agree with almost everything Only I put KT probably ahead of Cato... Although Cato may be a hotter commodity I think KT is just not a good fit for the Rockets and maybe a problem on the bench... Also I don't see any players out there, available, that I really want in place of our tradeable commodities... I don't want to trade our problems for someone else's problems... I know Clutch has mentioned Artest but I think Hawkins is a poor man's Artest now and we can keep Cat as well... Anyway good post
I agree with that quote. Who is available that we would want? Could Cato and someone else on that list be enough for Orlando to consider parting with Mike Miller? About the only thing I would like on the team are good outside shooters. And as far as Artest is concerned he is a major contributor on one of the hottest teams in the league right now. I am not sure the Pacers would want to fool with their chemistry right now unless it was a major blockbuster trade.
I sick of hearing trade rumors. I don't think the rockets should go out and make a trade. Let the other teams come to the rockets with trade offers.
Even if other teams come to the Rockets you have to know who you are willing to trade. Besides as I said in my post, "I am not advocating a trade at this time." As the rotation works its way out there will be people that will not remain on this team for various reasons. Cato has improved his game dramatically. Could anyone blame him if he wanted to go to another team at some point in order to get some playing time? BTW: there are no trade rumors in this thread...yet.
Crash, interesting thread. The major problems Ive been having with this team is the lack of ball movement and little early offense. Last night's game was a real eye opener for me. It was absolutely amazing to me how well the ball moved and how quickly the offensive efficiency started to pick up. This is the first time I have seen the Rockets play that way against a good defensive ball club. Rolling up 50% against a trash Cleveland team with Miles injured means very little to me. The Cavs just arent a good team. The Wizards, on the other hand, have been holding teams to 42% from the field with solid defense, and the Rockets were at a 48% efficiency last night. The offensive efficiency picked up over night against a good defensive team with the subtraction of the so called weapon Mobley, go figure. This is something that should be monitored over the next few weeks while Mobley is out. I dont think the Rockets will be able to acquire Artest or really need him with Hawkins on the club. However, I am a HUGE fan of Tinsley's game and think he would solve many of the Rockets problems. I would like some type of 3 way deal where the Rockets can net Jamaal Tinsley from the Pacers and Jon Barry from the Pistons and the likes of Mobley, Mooch and/or KT being traded. This team is one true PG and one shooter away from being REAL special.
Players I would consider trading if the right offer comes along: 1) Kenny Thomas - because he will want a lot of money next year, but he will not be a go-to guy on our team. Maybe on some other team. 2) Moochie Norris - some people were claiming he could be a starting PG for some other teams, let's see if he can. 3) Kelvin Cato - only for a very good offer. As long as his attitude is good, he can be a great insurance and a good enforcer behind Yao or sometimes maybe even on the court at the same time. Trades I would consider would be: a) Trade with Denver Houston trades: PG Moochie Norris (3.3 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 1.8 apg in 17.6 minutes) PF Kenny Thomas (8.9 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 2.0 apg in 26.8 minutes) Houston receives: PF Maybyner Hilario (8.9 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 2.0 apg in 26.8 minutes) SG James Posey (14.6 ppg, 7.6 rpg, 3.1 apg in 35.9 minutes) PF Donnell Harvey (4.8 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 0.6 apg in 14.2 minutes) Change in team outlook: +7.2 ppg, +2.4 rpg, and -0.1 apg. b) Trade with Detroit Houston trades: PG Moochie Norris (3.3 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 1.8 apg in 17.6 minutes) Houston receives: SG Jon Barry (6.7 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 2.7 apg in 19.1 minutes) c) Trade with Memphis Houston trades: C Kelvin Cato (6.6 ppg, 11.0 rpg, 0.4 apg in 28.0 minutes) Houston receives: PG Brevin Knight (3.8 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 4.0 apg in 16.1 minutes) SG Shane Battier (6.9 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 1.1 apg in 26.5 minutes) d) Trade with Milwaukee Houston trades: C Kelvin Cato (6.6 ppg, 11.0 rpg, 0.4 apg in 28.0 minutes) SG Cuttino Mobley (17.5 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 3.0 apg in 42.1 minutes) PG Moochie Norris (3.3 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 1.8 apg in 17.6 minutes) Houston receives: SG Ray Allen (23.6 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 2.3 apg in 34.2 minutes) C Ervin Johnson (1.7 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 0.2 apg in 17.8 minutes) e) Trade with Orlando Houston trades: PF Jason Collier (3.2 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.0 apg in 10.7 minutes) PF Kenny Thomas (8.9 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 2.0 apg in 26.8 minutes) Houston receives: SG Mike Miller (12.6 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 3.2 apg in 31.8 minutes) f) Trade with Utah Houston trades: PF Kenny Thomas (8.9 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 2.0 apg in 26.8 minutes) C Kelvin Cato (6.6 ppg, 11.0 rpg, 0.4 apg in 28.0 minutes) Houston receives: SF Andrei Kirilenko (13.6 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 1.8 apg in 26.2 minutes) C Greg Ostertag (5.3 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 0.5 apg in 20.8 minutes) Too bad that for most of these, the other team would not consider them .
The good ball movement actually started against the Mavericks when we had 22 assists. I think it can be attributed to Yao Ming being in the game a lot more then Cat not being there. I just don't see Indiana trading a major contributor on their team right now unless it is a block buster trade. They are playing as well as anyone in the league outside of the Mavericks and Jamal gets 30+ minutes a game for them. The other problem with Jamal is that he does little that would help Yao Ming IMO. His outside shot is less than pathetic and I think anyone we put on the perimeter should at least be a decent outside shooter to keep teams from sagging in on Yao Ming. Personally I want someone that can make the defense pay when it leaves a man open to double or triple Yao Ming and Jamal is not that man.
Crash, That is why I want to do a 3 way where we can get Jon Barry also. Barry is a veteran that at 6-5 plays both guard spots and is a very good shooter. 39% from the arc for his career and his efficiency numbers increase as he gets atleast 20 MPG. Jamaal Tinsley has improved his 3 pt shot a lot this summer and is shooting a very nice 40% from the arc so far this season. His mid range game still needs time but will develop. Remember, Jason Kidd was awful offensively his first 3-4 yrs but then developed. On nights when he isnt hitting, the Rockets can go with a backcourt of Steve and Jon Barry. However, on most nights, Tinsley will make the game so much easier for Yao and everyone by setting them up for real easy looks and making good passes into the post. Also, the early offense and transition game will pickup BIG TIME. The last time the Rockets were a good transition team was in 95 after they acquired Drexler. The Dallas game is not a good example to use btw. The Rockets shot a piss poor 41% from the field. Im still trying to figure out how you can get 22 asts and put forth such an anemic offensive output. Against the Wizards, they shot 48% with similar assists, and you could tell the overall offense was WAY smoother. The only ball holding was done by KT.
The only problem I have with trading Kelvin is 1.) When Ming hits the rookie wall, who are we going to rely on? I suppose we could resort to Collier or our griffin, mo taylor, and kenny thomas lineup, but Cato has been playing pretty damn well this season. 2.) Also, who is Ming to go against in practice? Cato is a much better defender than Collier... therefore he should give Ming much more of a challenge when he's trying to score. Going against Cato in practice will improve Ming much more than going against Collier. 3.) There's also the chance that Ming might get injured (knock on wood). It's a shame that he has such a fat contract. I want to keep him around, but despite my points above, if Cato only plays sparse minutes every game, then it is a big waste of money. However, I do not think the Rockets will jump on any trades yet... it's still to early to make any decisions.
1. Jon Barry is the part of the deal that I do like. Barry has a very good outside shot that would be good against the zone. 2. Kidd is a great playmaker but he has never really found his outside shot. This is only the 2nd year that he has ever shot over .421 and half of his nine years he has shot below 40 percent. I'm not bashing Kidd because he certainly makes up for it in other areas. 3. I think the fact that the Rockets had 22 assists while only shooting 41% from the feild shows just how good the ball movement was against the Mavericks. To me that is much more impresive than 21 assists while shooting 48%. And I don't think ball movement had anything to do with players missing wide open jump shots in the Dallas game. Getting back to your suggestion of aquiring Jon Barry...that would be an upgrade on our team IMO if we did not have to give up the moon to get him.
Crash, Initially I was thinking of just KT/Collier for Barry/future pick. KT seems like the type of player that Joe Dumars would love; hustle, defense, desire etc. I am not totally sure if Barry would completely solve this team's problems, though. The early offense and transition may possibly improve, but its hard to say. Barry can play the point, but he isnt the true PG that Tinsley is, he's more a combo guard. This is no reason why this team shouldnt be in the top 5 in FG % in the league averaging atleast 47% per game. Also, are you ok with Mobley's role decreasing in the offense a lot? The Rockets werent running the same iso play as before for him, but he was getting the ball in an iso situation at later stages in the offense. I dont think that is really a good idea for this team. The 2 guards role needs to consist of being a spot up shooter, defender, etc in this offense if Francis is going to run the point. Maybe Mobley can change his game into that?
I think with Yao Ming in the starting line up then we will not only see our team get off to quicker starts but I think you will see our team F/G% go up. We won't have guys like Cat going 0 for 8 very often that’s for sure. Speaking of Cat I think he has already begun to change his game. He is handing out over 3 assist a game over the last 9 games. Cat can be a very good spot up shooter. His mid range shot was really smooth last year as well. I think once his ankles heal he will be a terrific multi faceted scoring option again. It is always good to have someone that knows how to attack the basket and Cat is great at that.
What does this team need? Nothing But Time Move KT and Moochie for salary purposes if you choose, but keep Cato. We need a defensive presence when Ming leaves the game. Heck, I'd like to see Kelvin play 18 minutes a game. Shut down the middle for 48 minutes! Let these teams shoot from the outside with a hand in their face. This team is loaded with defenders, scorers, and shooters. All we need is time to mature and gel.
If you get rid of KT, Cato's role increases with this team. Cato or Ming can slide over to the 4 when Mo or Eddie are inconsistent, injured or just getting a breather on the bench. Living in New Mexico, I've alway been a very big KT fan but I have a lot of faith in Hawk, TMo and in time, Nachbar at the 3. Add to the fact that TMo can play at the 4 some and Collier is there for insurance and I would consider moving Kenny but Cato's gotta stay! Of course all of this is dependent of Terrance's play. I'm excited to have him back and curious to see if he can play near his preseason form.
Something to consider in terms of Mobley's role in the offense. Crash and some others have been saying that Mobley is showing the ability to take a lesser role in the offense, etc. I dont think some folks are realizing exactly how much of a lesser role this will eventually have to become in terms of shot attempts. Here's the way I see it panning out.... In order for Steve and Yao to really be established as the cornerstones of this franchise and become 2 of the top 10 players in the game without question, they need about 20 shot attempts a game each. Steve is already getting that much, Yao will eventually have to also. Kobe and Shaq each average this much as do Webber, McGrady etc. Duncan is pretty close to this mark. Steve and Yao should rightfully get this many shots b/c they are clearly the two best offensive options on the team and have the potential to be two of the top 5 players in the game one day. The Rockets average roughly 80 shots a game so their two franchise players would be taking half the pie. This is a realistic mark to expect, they are not high octane enough like Dal or Sacto to average 84-85 per game. The question then is, how do you divide the other 40 shots among the rest of the team and still have the offense operating smoothly and being able to score at a very high clip? Mo Taylor averaged about 10 attempts per game his last season with the Rockets and should eventually get that much again considering he is able to score at a very high pct when in the flow. Eddie Griffin has been averaging 10 attempts and should continue to receive that much as well in order to develop his offensive game. You could also make the argument that Griff could receive more in time as his offensive game develops. This team clearly has shown that the offense flows beautifully when a SF that can nail the three is playing. If the long term option is Nachbar, you would think he needs to eventually get 10 shots per game as well. That puts the shot chart as follows: Ming - 20 Francis - 20 Griffin - 10 Taylor - 10 Nachbar (eventually) - 10 Considering the team will usually average a total of 80 shots, there just is not enough room for even a 10 per game Mobley. The other 3-4 spots in the rotation in the rotation need to be filled with solid role players that dont need many shots but add with the little things. For instance, players like Tinsley and Barry each shoot about 5-8 times a game. The Mobley supporters, please explain to me where his shots will come from.
Similar minds Sir J. Scary. Those are the kind of deals I would like to do, but some I'd be hesitant to pull the trigger on, and some the other team would laugh at the offer.
You're right on almost everything here, but the only problem is you're not Cuttino Mobley. The Cat thinks he should be the one to start the offense. He doesn't pass the ball, he doesn't want to wait for the open J from Yao Ming, he doesn't pass the ball to Yao Ming and wait for "nice pass." He wants to start the offense and that means FADE AWAY (not open) mid-range jumper, or slash to the basket and feed our big men for mid range jumper (or dunk if lucky), or dribble out the clock and pass to our big men for a desperation shot. that's not a "best scoring guard in the league" should do. and when you call Mobley "one of the BESTscoring guards in the league " I know you either a Homer or a girl.
again, you're right on almost everything here (except the "best scoring guard") Even a Mobely hater has to admit that the Cat is a talanted scorer and that's why we can trade him for someone as talanted but fits better on this team. most of the fans only want to trade the players like Collier or Rice or Madox that no team would want to trade for. you have to give up something valueable for something valueable in return.
