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Tiger vs. Phil

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by Another Brother, Jul 19, 2004.

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  1. Another Brother

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    I voted on a poll question having to do with the best golfer in the world, and I was a little surprised at the results. Phil Mickelson led in the voting over VJ, Ernie and Tiger by a considerable amount. I realize that Tiger has fallen off a bit but has Phils game really improved enough to challenge Tiger's superiority?

    People really seem to like Lefty and with good reason, he's easy to root for because he seems like such a regular guy and a nice player. Is Tiger's rockstar popularity starting to fade because he isn't winning tournaments or is Phil just the flavor of the month like Sergio, Duval etc. had been before him?
     
  2. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Tiger got himself a love interest, and his game declined accordingly.

    Tiger is one of the best golfers now, but is nowhere near the level he used to be, and I would be surprised if he ever gets there again.

    His invincibility aura and mystique are gone.

    DD
     
  3. NJRocket

    NJRocket Member

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    The year they moved in together (Tiger and the hot blonde), he won 2 majors.

    That being said.....I guess once the nagging started, it probably didn't help
     
  4. JumpMan

    JumpMan Member
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    He's still the best... If you were to bet on ONE guy every tournament the best guy to bet on would always be Tiger...
     
  5. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    I don't think it's a flavor of the month kind of thing at all. People have been rooting for Phil for a long time now and now that's he's won a major and nearly won two more, of course he's going to be a little more popular now.

    Personally, I like Tiger much more now than I used to. I used to think that it was because he wasn't winning everything, but yesterday made me think otherwise. He just seems happier, which I'm sure is due in large part to his wife. When he was dominating, he just had this arrogant, stand-offish attitude, IMO. You'd never see him walking up to the 18th green with a big smile on his face on a Sunday that saw him not at the top. You saw that yesterday. He still seems frustrated on occasion, but he's playing a frustrating sport. However, now, he seems to relish the fact that he's one of the best, if not still the best, and he's earning a living doing something that the vast majority of us would love to be doing. That endears him to me.
     
  6. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    right NOW. phil is a better golfer than tiger is.

    tiger at his best is as good as it gets. but if you're not playing at your best...to your potential...then it doesn't matter.
     
  7. thegary

    thegary Member

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    tiger is still a great player. i think it is the competition that has raised its collective level rather than tiger playing worse. he raised the bar high and the tour has risen to to meet it.
     
  8. drapg

    drapg Member

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    I think of it this way...

    Entering EVERY tournament, I believe Tiger has the chance to win... I don't quite have that same confidence in Phil, instead I think he's money to finish in the top 15.

    Same with Vijay and Ernie
     
  9. rrj_gamz

    rrj_gamz Member

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    it's like the movie the natural...when Roy got his girl, his game slipped, same for Tiger...

    Lefty has always been a fan favorit, but superior than Tiger, never...It's the flavor of the month...

    On a side note, watching the Open yesterday, I saw Sergio's new Michelob Ultra commerical...Hot blond...
     
  10. Bailey

    Bailey Veteran Member

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    Over the last 7 majors (2003 onwards):

    Woods: 2 top ten finishes, 0 wins
    Mickelson: 4 top ten finishes 1 win
    Els: 6 top ten finishes 0 wins
    Singh: 3 top ten finishes, 0 wins

    Tiger has just dropped off in his level of performance (which was admittedly very high previously). People have also noticed that Tiger hasn't had a come-from-behind win in a major either.

    Mickelson had the whole "best player never to win a major" tag, which he's dropped now, so I guess people are rating him highly because he won his major.

    Personally, if I was going to back one guy every tournament, it would be Els. Consistently finishes up the leaderboard, has won majors multiple times, and always seems in control of his game, whilst still taking the occasional risk.

    Woods just doesn't look a winner to me at the moment. Maybe Butch Harmon had a point.
     
  11. PhiSlammaJamma

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    Tiger is always ranked #1 at the end of the year. And that says it all.
     
  12. droxford

    droxford Member

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    Kinda depends on how you define "best golfer" doesn't it? Most major wins? Most major top 10's? Most wins? Most top 10's? World rank? PGA rank? Money leader? I kinda think they should all be factored in together.

    Tiger was at a point where he was phenomenal. His carreer spiked high above everyone else. But the spike didn't last and now he's just a very good golfer. Els, Singh, and Mickelson have been consistently great for years, and while Tiger's flash is fading, the other guys are on the climb.

    I would NOT bet on Tiger right now. He isn't much of a factor in the majors nowadays, and isn't really winning often in the non-majors, either. Mickelson is the hungriest right now. The changes to his swing delivered success at The Masters, and now he's excited about winning more.

    It looks like Tiger just doesn't have control. No control of his shots. No control of his emotions. When I see him play, it looks to me as if he doesn't practice building consistency and accuracy.

    And to hear Tiger speak after each round - he just seems too accepting getting 8th place (or worse). No hunger. The more you want it, the more it hurts to lose it. Tiger ain't hurtin', so he obviously doesn't want it bad enough. Compare that to Phil: he finished one stroke away from the lead and was disappointed that he didn't get enough birdies to win.

    -- droxford
     
  13. Bogey

    Bogey Member

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    With Tiger slumping and with Lefty changing his mindset (playing better golf by not always 'going for it'), Phil is the better golfer at this time. I would put both him and Els above Tiger right now. If Tiger doesn't swallow his pride and beg Butch to come back soon, he can forget about chasing the Golden Bear for anything. I'd hate to see his enormous God given talent go to waste.
     
  14. Bogey

    Bogey Member

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    I doubt he will this year.
     
  15. 4chuckie

    4chuckie Member

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    Right now I would rank Els #1, and Vijay #4. Tiger and Phil are neck and neck IMO, but I would say Phil is playing better right now.
     
  16. Cohen

    Cohen Member

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    I agree.

    But if Tiger ever gets back with Butch, this would prob change quickly.
     
  17. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    #1 - Todd Hamilton
    #2 - Ben Curtis
    #3 - Joe Schmoe, who will win next year's British Open
     
    #17 Manny Ramirez, Jul 19, 2004
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2004
  18. Another Brother

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    Butch works with other golfers too, why aren't they as good?
     
  19. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    because they're not Tiger Woods! :D
     
  20. thegary

    thegary Member

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    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/20/sports/golf/20golf.html

    Parity Is Par for the Course Nowadays
    By CLIFTON BROWN

    Published: July 20, 2004

    Beware of the unlikely winner.

    By outplaying Ernie Els and Phil Mickelson, Todd Hamilton won the British Open on Sunday and became the most recent unlikely winner of a major championship. Hamilton is the latest player to seize the spotlight during the current two-year lull that has left Tiger Woods without a victory in the last nine majors.
    Advertisement

    Since Woods won the 2002 United States Open, nine different players have won a major championship. Seven of those players had never won a major before: Rich Beem, Mike Weir, Jim Furyk, Ben Curtis, Shaun Micheel, Mickelson and Hamilton. Some of those players are among the world's elite. But Curtis, who won the British Open last year, and Micheel, who won last season's P.G.A. Championship, had never won a tournament.

    That is hardly a coincidence. When Woods won 7 of 11 majors, there was little opportunity for anyone else. Mickelson knew it. Vijay Singh knew it. And Els certainly knew it, finishing a distant second to Woods in two major championships in 2000.

    "Whenever he teed it up, I thought he was going to shoot a 67 or better," Els said last week at the British Open. "That's how good he was playing. That's difficult to really even think about. It was difficult not only for myself, but for other players, to really go out there and play your game and think it's going to be good enough."

    Things are much different now. This year, Mickelson, Els and Singh have all been better than Woods. He does not drive the ball with the same accuracy. His distance control with his irons has slipped.

    Almost everyone in golf has a theory on why Woods has slowed down: his breakup with his swing coach, Butch Harmon; his knee injury that required surgery in 2001; the way his body changed as he matured; and his contentment with life away from golf.

    If there were an easy answer, Woods would have figured it out. Simply put, that's golf.

    Jack Nicklaus had an 0-for-11 streak in majors during his prime. He won his seventh major at the 1967 United States Open and did not win his eighth major until the 1970 British Open. At age 28, and with eight major titles already, Woods is young enough, talented enough and driven enough to threaten Nicklaus's record of 18 major championships. But even if he solves his swing issues soon, it is unlikely that he will have a run like the one that demoralized his opposition.

    The fear factor Woods once generated is gone. When he pulled within a stroke of the lead midway through Saturday's third round, nobody flinched. Woods finished tied for ninth, seven strokes off the lead. He has not won a stroke-play event since last October. Every tournament is wide open, because no one has replaced Woods, the only player of his era who proved that he could dominate. Singh, a wonderfully consistent player, has not won a major since the 2000 Masters, and he faded out of contention Saturday with a 76.

    Mickelson has been the best player in the world this year, winning the Masters, finishing second in the United States Open and placing third at the British Open. While Mickelson's Masters triumph finally ended the flak he took for never winning a major, it has not made it easier for him to win a second one.

    Els, a winner of three majors during his stellar career, has also had his problems. He had a chance to win all of this year's majors but has not won one. Mickelson nipped him at the Masters. Els fell out of contention at the United States Open when his game disintegrated and he shot a final-round 80. And on Sunday, Els did not put Hamilton away when he had the opportunity.

    On the 18th hole, Els was a 12-foot birdie attempt away from a birdie-birdie-birdie finish that would have capped a comeback for the ages.

    But Els missed the shot and it seemed to deflate him during the playoff. Hamilton had another chance and he took it, completing a feel-good story for someone who spent 12 years playing in Asia before finally making the PGA Tour this year, and making the most of it.

    "Not to be conceited or anything, but I think it's a pretty neat story," said Hamilton, who also won the Honda Classic in March. "I went through a stretch of three, four, five years where I didn't do as well as I should have done.

    "Last year I won four times on the Japanese Tour. Kind of like this week, you never would have thought something like that was going to happen. I used that confidence that I gained last year, and that allowed me to get my PGA Tour card. Over 17 years, I had tried eight times to do that. For me, to qualify for the PGA Tour and get my Tour card was like winning the Open championship."

    Now Hamilton has his tour card and a victory in the British Open. Though he has been compared to Curtis, who won last year's British Open while ranked 396th in the world, Hamilton is far more accomplished. He looked Els in the eye for 22 holes, stuck to his game plan and played the round of his life.

    With Tiger no longer roaring, the climate is ripe for other lesser-known players to step forward.

    So beware the unlikely winner. All tournaments these days, even major championships, are clearly wide open.
     

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