You shouldve learned by now. The statements about barely making the playoffs, that may be true, but he took and led a team to the playoffs as the headliner. This isn't about yao vs mcgrady because its a no brainer. 2 yrs and 68% later vs whatever the team is without tracy is proof. Now you can kick and scream about his salary , but yao makes max also. Its been proven over and over again that he needs tracy more than tracy needs him. now if you don't belive that, that's your bad.
More excuses for Yao's pathetic display of basketball. Getting more fastbreak points and blocks won't hide Yao's deficiencies against Memphis. You can't have matchup advantages at every position. We could have them at most positions if we were healthy, but not with the roster tonight. Health is the only thing that matters at this point. It's pretty obvious that Yao can't carry a team when we play against teams that play him the way Memphis, Boston, etc. does. The only solution is to stop feeding him the ball, or just benching him all the way. If you look at the best rotations of this game (popcorn machine thing), I guarantee you Yao won't be in them.
don't you feel you're a little, err, self-contradictory (i'm trying to be polite here)? i've always thought you know game, unlike many others. now you've fallen to this trap as well. sad. yao needs mcgrady more than vice versa? i disagree. but even if it is true, what is your freakin' point? do you want to say this is why #1 is sitting out for no good reason right now and is probably grinning in his bed while massaging his sore left knee? sheesh.
This is all I'm saying ibm is that I think it pisses more people off that this team needs mcgrady more than yao. I generally think that's the dissatisfaction with mcgrady. People feel this team should have or could be better without him, but its not. The move to get Artest helps ease the burden of when he's not in there, but ibm, you were the one that brought up barely making the playoffs in the east. The point is, he has proof that he can take subpar talent and make the playoffs. I mean how many players in the nba can say they have bo outlaw, andrew declerk, and pat garrity playing big minutes on a playoff team? How many people can lose the best center in basketball and win 67% of their games? Som guys just have a different impact on the game. My biggest problem with yao has always his offensive production being tied to his defensive presence. I don't care he had 11 pts tonight, but going an entire half without a rebound and 1 blk is what bother me. How many times have we seen mcgrady have a subpar scoring game, then don't contribute anything else? That rarely happens. If yao wouldve had 13pts 15 rebs and 3 blks, that wouldve been good enough for me, but it didn't and most times it don't.
i think you brought mcgrady into this thread first. check out your post #32. i merely responded (at post #38). anyway, who needs who more, i think it's a long debate and could take a whole night. briefly - i actually don't think it's the right way to think of things to begin with. did the pipens or rodman's need mj more or otherwise? or did they need each other? kobe & shaq? etc. in today's nba, with so many rule changes in favor of the guards and wingmen in general, it makes it more difficult for big men. put back the illegal defense rule, make them unable to double before yao catches the ball, call the game fairly, and see what happens. get rid of the hand-check rule and see what happens. when yao misses games, mcgrady still had deke and juwan (last year it was scolandry) step up big time in the interior; when mcgrady went down (like tonight), who does yao have? thank god we have some players like brooks and wafer who can play a little, so it was somewhat close. otherwise, yao has to perform at 30/15 level at least for us to have a chance, which is a lot tougher to do than in the 80's and even the 90's. i don't want to debate who needs who more here. it's kinda a meaningless point. i do agree with the last point you made, though. yes, yao is improving, but still has the tendency of playing poorly at the defensive end when his offensive game is not going well.
That's the point. One shouldn't be tied to the other. Jordan needed pippen, but pippen needed Jordan more. Shaq needed a kobe type, but kobe needed shaq more. Tracy needs yao, but yao needs tracy more. U brought up the 80's, I don't think Yao would ever be considered the best center in the nba in the 80's or 90's. We can talk about the zones, but what about the iso's and the brutality that went on in the post? Not to mention the quality of players at the pivot? Offense should never effect defense and rebounding. Never.
Yeah, but tracy can make do with deke. The gap from ron to tracy isn't that big, but deke to yao is supposed to be huge.
the talent level yao played with tonight was better than whatever tracy had in orlando. and this is yao's 7th season. and it's not like his game is on an upward climb. and we lost to memphis. and it wasn't that we lost. it was that yao had zero impact on the game.
exactly, the reason people are frustrated with tracy missing games is b/c if he plays, WE WOULD BE WINNING GAMES. they know tracy is the reason. i mean if we win 60% of our games without tracy, i guarantee you nobody cares if tracy misses games (or the level of frustration isn't that high). but here we are again: 3-3 without tracy (during an extremely easy schedule mind you).
I think for the most part everyone here agree's with this, its just that after tomorrow if and when we lose against the Hawks the savages will start to get restless and after December 15 if Tmac isn't back and the Rockets are still not looking good you can mark this down and check it in 2 weeks that we will have made a trade for someone to add to our arsenal because we can't keep losing and Les is shelling out big bucks for this team as is. This is pretty much the same team that took us all on a 22 game winning streak last year and the only 2 key people missing from it is Tmac and Deke, so why the hell can we not even beat the Grizzlies or some of the other teams we have gotten beat by this year? If we are this frustrated imagine how Les and Morey feel at this point, and you know Adelman is sweating bullets over there on the bench. This team better suck it up pretty quick or you can kiss some our role players goodbye in the coming weeks.
I think the record with Mcgrady and Yao speaks for itself. Clearly that is the only record that matters.
I think what irritates a lot of old school hoop rox fans is that we know Yao will never be moses or dream and that's cool, but to grab 0 rebounds in a half just won't cut it. I'm not saying they should smash every team like memphis, but duncan beat the rox with a rookie pg and some other castoffs. Then they play atlanta tonight. Atlanta is another long atheletic team that the rox will have trouble with. Its another reason why I'm always critical about the makeup of this team. Yao goes out, a short positional defender like hayes comes in, but with atheletic guys, they know to just get in position and jump over him. The rox rox don't have a single 4/5 that can makeup for yao weaknesses. People on this board will praise Hayes, but whenever you gt to double hakim warrick, how good is your defense. Warrick is a sf with postup ability and very atheletic. I may not want to have him, but the rox don't have a type of player like him.
it's actually a short debate...look at the record...it's over. kobe and shaq? same story. the difference is shaq and kobbe actually do need each other to win the championship. yao and mac? even they're both playing, still no chance at a champoinship. that's why i agree with you it's pointless to argue yao needs tmac more or vice versa. it's like arguing rudy gay and oj mayo who needs whom more. it's pointless because they're going nowhere either way.
This is why both of them should be gone after next season. Bring in Wade and Bosh or Wade and Amare and then you'll have TRUE leaders on this team.
More than 50% or less is irrelevant. He missed the playoffs last year in a season we should have advanced to the 2nd round. He misses good chunks of the season. And before you say McGrady misses a lot of games, he really doesn't compared to Yao. He b****es a lot to the media about being hurt, but often times he plays through his injuries. So >50% or not, he misses games. He misses them when it hurts the most. He's a liability that can't be trusted. The people saying he'll have a rebound game against the Grizzlies the next time they meet, its not a guarantee. The first game this season against the Grizzlies, Yao had a tough time because Gasol played him physically. This is why I'm concerned about him during the playoffs. I'm really tired of defending Yao. He's no Dream, but he should still will his way to a 20/10 game, even at the cost of efficiency. I think most every person has wanted to see him play selfishly because believe it or not it can have a positive impact on the floor despite shooting poorly. When you can't even force your way to a 20/10 game against one of the worst teams in league, it means you're not exactly a player to build your franchise around and expect great results. The worst part is this has happened in previous years as well, and every time there's the excuse that he'll never have a game like it again. I really hope he does well against the Grizz next game. I hope he is healthy and plays well during the playoffs, but I refuse to believe he is some sort of leader, or even more talented than McGrady. Face facts. McGrady kept the team to a near #1 seed and actually ahead for a short stint despite Yao's absence. Yao is expendable.
