Everyone who bashes Stevie usually does so because he has an extreme tendency to look to do it all himself, especially in times of trouble, and moreover that he is often seeming to put himself in a position where, lo and behold, he's 'forced' to take it all on himself. This seesm to be completely about ego, and that's a factor, but I think that there are many reasons why guys like him do this. First of all, he wants to win...badly. And, quite simply, he has never had the kind of teammates that he could trust to help him win, at least not as he could trust himself. SO he doesn't play a team-oriented style at least in part because he doesn't think it's the best way to go, and aside from Mobley, for most of his career he hasn't been surrounded by other players it would make sense to trust. Secondly, there is ego. And in Steve, it's an extreme problem...not that he's naturally more egotistical than most others, but just that his, and the foundation of his has been cultivated at a time when most other players see thieirs shaped into a team concept. Remember; Steve didnt'y play much when he was younger, moved around a lot in school, and the only year he played for a team at a high level in college, he dominated the ball, and the game...so he didn't learn humility and the merits of team play there. Then, after refusing to play for Vancouver and pouting on television, he comes to Houston, a stacked team of stars, and one by one in quick succession they go down to injury, and the team, unprepared as they were for such devastation, has little choice but to turn the reings over to Steve. Now remember, Steve is like all other super-talented players; until they are really taught otherwise, they actually think that their talent is measured by their ability to dominate single handedly. And, moreover, they feel that relying on a team design, set plays, etc. to score means that you can't do it on your own. It's almost an affron to their abilities and ego for the team to score, not because I have exceptional ability and can beat my man, but because the coach ran the right play, and the pieces all did what they were supposed to. How many set plays do you see at Ruckers? You don't, because it would seem insulting, unless it was some kinf of play, like an alley-oop, which is really just another way to show off your abilites. So these guys think that system players aren't using their abilites, and are as much as admitting that they can't do it alone. This usually gets beaten out of them in college, where they find other players just as able, and compromise is necessry, and where they have coaches who don't really give them much choice. The point isn't that they're broken down, the point is that they learn two things about playing team ball: It leads to winning, and if you do it right, it allows you to use, even emphaisze your abilites within the team concept. In fact, if the team concept is a good one, it puts it's best players in a position to make the most of their abilites. But Steve never learned this in college, not enough time, and not the right situation. ANd he never learned it in Houston, as the system set up before he got there: give the ball to your best player, lt him create, or hit the open man off the double, was almost instantly transfered to focus on him, allow him to create, and dish off when he wnated to...in other words, it fed into exactly the kind of mindset that young players need to lose, and he never, ever learned to trust team play. And his coach is the kind to allow him to do that. Then along comes Yao, and for the 1st time, people are clammering for him to give up the rock...Some are even saying that the other guy should be the focus, and remember, to Steve that means that Yao is what he was when he was the focus, and he is just one of those guys relying on Yao's ability like those kind of guys used to rely on him. It goes against everything he thinks of himself, and isn't contradicted by anything he has been taught, or has experienced. He thinks that team play means you can't do it on your own, and either you're the Man, or you're just another guy. Look at his experience, and the next time you bash him for being 'selfish',ask yourself this question: If you had had exactly the same basketball experience that Steve has had, wouldn't you feel and think, and play exactly like he does? If you're going to say no, tell me, when would you have learned different. Watching years of Jordan winning titles by beating guys one and one and taking all the shots? Now, it's not too late for Stevie, but it's going to be hard; he's learning it much later than most ever do, and he's got a lot more experience behind him which supports his current mindset. So it's going to be tough...but I feel for the guy. Instead of bashing him for NOT doing it, let's try to find ways to encourage him that it's all right to do it...that he won't be just another guy...that we can win that way...that you can trust team play and teammates, and still be among the best... ...and instead of being baffled that he just doesn't get it, or worse still refuses to, realize the size of the mental mountain he's trying to climb, and what it will say about what kind of guy he is if he makes it over. Peace JAG
I completly agree with your post and this statemen you made is very evident when you watch the game. I was at the hornets game and you can see when he had someone like Boki open on the Wing her really hesitated to pass the ball. He would spot up and shoot instead of passing it off. I really hope he can learn to start trusting his team so that way they build their confidence as well. As a leader if he can show he trusts them to hit the shot, that in turn gives the team confidence to step up.
MacJAG, Everything that was said there could have been said about Shaq. He worked with nobodys in LSU, gets on a team with Penny and runs off to LA. Then, Kobe emerges and there was a huge ego conflict. Eventually, Phil Jackson, among other factors, worked that problem out. But I don't see Francis like that in the first place. From what I saw in the one (partial) game that I was able to watch so far, the problems with him taking the game into his own hands came when Yao/(insert post option here) was already given the ball in the post and had to kick it out. When the shot clock wasn't very condusive with re-posting, Steve then took it upon himself (the only real non-post playmaker Sunday) to make sure some reasonable shot was taken. His shot selection was fine, IMO. He wasn't playing very selfishly at all and was allowing the inside-out offense to work its course. Keep in mind also that JVG said "inside-out" can mean a variety of things, including slashing and penetration... Oh, and it's just preseason.
I have to disagree about that part becuase when he was at LSU he was playing second fiddle to Stanley Roberts at that time. When he was on the court he was the second option behind Roberts. He made his way up after that when Roberts left LSU.
This I disagree with: First of all, Shaq played third fiddle, as Stanley Roberts was the resident big man when he got there, and Chris Jackson was pushing for NCAA Player Of The Year and scoring leader. But more than that, I disagree because Shaq doesn't really have to learn team play to the same degree that Steve does: Shaq doesn't bring the ball up, in fact he doesn't get the ball without some team play. Secondly, when he does get, it, he should dominate it. He's a franchise center, that's what they do. It's like with Olajuwon; when he added the wrinkle about passing out of the double team, it certainly helped, but his no doing that very well previously hadn't cost us that much...not nearly as much as Steve's does, because A) He couldn't make it a one player game like Steve can, as he's not the guy who runs the offense, and B) Unlike Steve now wth Yao, Hakeem's not passing the ball didn't keep that ball out of the hands of a star. And the number one thing Jackson did when he got there was he ended all the Who's The Man stuff,and made it clear: Shaq's the Man.
I'm upset with most all of the decisions the Houston Rockets have made lately. So with that being said, I'd say the most troublesome area of this team is stemming from the very top, and it's quickly making waves through out the Franchise.
If this is all Steve does then he should be applauded, not crucificed! It is ... and I think Steve will come around.
But speaking of Hakeem, Francis did do a little time as second-third fiddle in his first season though. But okay, forget the Shaq comparison then...do you disagree with my assessment of Steve? I mean, I'm certain you do, but how?
JAG? Heh... To answer your question. Yes, I would do the same thing that Francis is doing. Yes, it's true that Francis thinks in "black-and-white terms. All or nothing. And the reasons for thinking that way are totally "logical" giving his upbringing. But because I understand where he comes from and why he feels the way he does make me mad because I know WHY he's playing the wrong way (or just can't play any better because he just never learned to play the game the right way). It's like watching a incompetent captain going down with a sinking ship. Does the captain really *want* to make things better and save the ship? Sure! But he just doesn't know how to save it? No. He never learned. Francis! Learn to play with your "shipmates!" JAG, I also want to make a comment about your quote above (in my post). I remember that during Francis's first three years in Houston that after an alley-oop or dunk, Francis would immediately go into a "dance" or "prance" spinning around and around with his hands in a "Moose horns" type celebration. It was a "look at me, I'm bad" celebration. Now, celebration isn't bad. But one thing that I noticed was the fervor of the "celebration" and how many times it occurred throughout the game AND season. I'd figured that it was just "youthful exuberance" and would pass after his rookie season. But it didn't. It continued until his mid-third season. Sometimes he does it today, but not as much. But as I looked back, I thought it was a bad sign. It was a sign of, "let me show you what I can do!" Key word is, "I." Plus, the celebration after simple dunk was sooooo embellished that it was almost comical. It was almost like the kid thought he won a championship after every dunk. And I can't count how many times our opponents scored on us immediately after a Francis dunk because he (and team) were too busy "celebrating" still at the other end of the court. You know how JVG talks about Francis trying to go for the "home run?" Well, those "dunk celebrations" are crystalizing that idea. Sometimes I think that Francis forgets that a game is 48 minutes (or longer). His tendency to go for the "home run" every play distracts him from the real goal. Wining the game as a team. As opposed to "winning the flashy play" as an individual. DS
Excellent post MacBeth. I like how you gave both sides of the story (unlike the Steve bashers around here). Like you said, Francis' biggest problem is probably the fact that he has always had to lead this team on his own. I don't think it's that he doesn't want to share the ball with Yao, it's just that he's been a one-man team for so long that he's not used to sharing the ball that much. Once Francis embraces his new team, he'll be the 2nd best, if not the best, point guard in the league.
DavidS: The celebrations he'd put on after every dunk (the moosehorns or whatever) were, IIRC, a sign of unity between him and Cat. This was after Cat was thinking about going elsewhere during FA and Stevie convinced him to stay. It was a rip of DMiles and QRich's antenna thing, but it was their sign to each other that they were tight, or whatnot. Afterwards, they got the armbands with each other's numbers and names and such, and the moosehorn celebrations died down for the most part. I agree that when he first came out, I enjoyed his dunking. His celebrations of slapping the backboard and his skipping and prancing were immature, yes, but it showed an enthusiasm for the game. Like MacBeth said, anything to help the team win, which, during his first couple of years was to score. I think that can be channeled into other sources (becoming a better PG), but I don't see anything wrong with the celebrations themselves. They were just youthfulness. He doesn't "celebrate" nearly as much now as he used to.
MacBeth, I agree with most of what you said except the part Yao. I really think, that for the most part Steve and Yao co-existed well together. Like Van Gundy said, Yao got the right amount of touches, it was just Yao's ability to establish and hold his position. Yao was also prone to exhaustion, and I understand that sometimes in those games maybe Steve would feel he has to take over. In those games, I think that's the correct decision for Steve to make.
Well, I certainly wasn't basing my assessment of Steve on one pre-season game, especially as I didn't even see it. I was trying to take an aspect of Steve that is, I thought, pretty much acknowledged throughout the NBA, and among fans; that he tries to do it all himself too much. So if your perspective on him is that that hasn't been the case, tell me and I'll reponspond. I can't tell if yiu are just saying that you felt that it wasn't the case in this pre-season game or that it's not a problem, period. And, though I didn't see it, I will say this about re-entry passes; they are essential. I noticed this last year; that Yao was one and out. Now thankfully Yao isn't, or at least hasn't been the type of player to conclude " Hell, I'd better take my shots when I can get them, cause if I do the right thing and pass out of a poor opportunity, I'm not seeing the ball again." A major part of playing the point is clock management. Now as i said, I didn't see the game, but unless Yao is getting the ball, playing around with it for 10-15 seconds, and then passing back out, if there is never enough time for a re-entry, then it would seem that the original entry pass came too late in the clock. But as I said, that's just a supposition made without having seen the game.
Yeah, that is right...I don't really see steve celebrate as much either unless we're winning by 15 or 20 then he'll celebrate after a dunk. Oh yeah whatever happened to slapping the backboard?
Excellent post Mac'. Though I disagree with your assertion that Steve doesn't share with Yao due to his ego. I think trust (as it has been stated before) is the bigger issue. Not just trust in other players, but also trust in the system and the particular offensive set that was called. When the play breaks, you can almost see the light go on in his head and you know that he isn't going to give it up. He needs to learn that when the play breaks he doesn't always have to rush a shot or do it himself... try to reset (which the Rox never seem to do) if time on the clock permitts, if Yao is in the post you have to use him as a safety blanket, and if all else fails break your man down and kick out to an open team mate. Now I do see him do the later on occasion, but if his team mates are not hitting the open looks he gives them he does it less and less as the game goes on. In any regard I think that all of Steves minor flaws are correctable with discpline, attention to detail, and focus on fundamentals. Enter Jeff Van Gundy.
nice post. Much better than those other "stevie has a problem" threads. Danm, i am so sick of those. This one had a lot of good points and was a good read. I agree on the fact that, after all these years SF just wants to win. Whatever it takes, he will do it, though he hasn't had teamates who could nail the open shots when needed so the burden goes to him to take/make the shots. Moochie had a fluke season a few years back when he nailed like 5 game winners, all from beyond the 3 pt line. Stevie would drive and get the double team and then Moochie would nail those suckers. Maybe it wasn't a fluke season. I am waiting to see if Moochie can go back up to the heights he was before. He looked like a good back up pg. damn...how did i get to talkign about Moochie?!
Does he really want to win? I remember Franchise's first three years in the league. I remember Cat and Steve laying on the floor after a tough loss. I don't see that anymore. Some say that is a sign of maturity, a sign of professionalism. Other than that, his (attitude) game has not improved. The guy still takes bad shots, holds the ball too long, doesn't pass to anyone other than his buddies... The more I think about it, the more I believe the All Star game is more important to him than the ring. The guy is selfish and there is no excuses for his game. I will no longer make excuses for him. I will no longer accept any excuses. He has his contract, he has his security, it is time to show results. Francis reminds me of a salesman that promises his manager big deals that never come to fruition. The manager gets fired and the new manager comes in and only looks at results and doesn't listen to promises. That is where we are at. No need to sugarcoat Francis' shortcomings. It is time to demand results from our Franchise. I don't want to hear from anyone of you that it is too early to judge him. I don't want to hear that it is only the preseason and the team hasn't had enough time to get used to the coach, to learn the system. I WILL GIVE THE SO-CALLED FRANCHISE THIS YEAR TO PROVE HE DESERVES THE FRANCHISE TAG. NO EXCUSES. I DON'T CARE ABOUT STATS, JUST VICTORIES!
