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The Passion

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MR. MEOWGI, Sep 1, 2003.

  1. MR. MEOWGI

    MR. MEOWGI Contributing Member

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    Check out trailer here: http://movies.go.com/movies/P/passion_2003/index.html#

    The story is said to take place over the last 12 hours of Christ's life, on the day of his crucifixion, and will be filmed in Latin and Aramaic with no subtitles. But It looks like Mel is still going with the classic western idea of the physical appearance of Jesus. I wish he would of updated that and gone for a closer possible likeness of the historical Jesus (check out http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20030414/jesus.html. ).
    But this movie isn't even close to being released and people are already freaking out. Fox just said today that they will not distribute it. I'll see it though, even if I disagree with it.




    Grafic movie about Crucifixion is stirring debate
    BY MURRAY DUBIN
    Knight Ridder News Service

    http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/entertainment/6645396.htm

    Seven months before its expected release, a Mel Gibson movie about the final hours in the life of Jesus Christ is stirring up a firestorm with allegations of anti-Semitism, anti-Catholicism, a stolen script and bad faith.

    The Anti-Defamation League, whose representative saw The Passion at a private screening, said recently that in its current form the movie ``will fuel the hatred, bigotry and anti-Semitism that many responsible churches have worked hard to repudiate.''

    Theologians who have read a script also fear it may cause a rift in Christian-Jewish relations.

    ''The role of the Jews in the Crucifixion was heightened, and the role of the Roman governor was even more de-emphasized than it was in the Gospels,'' said Sister Mary C. Boys, a professor at Union Theological Seminary in New York. ``In the script I read, the Jewish mob is a huge, blood-thirsty, vengeful group.''

    With a furor building, The Passion joins The Last Temptation of Christ and Dogma among the religious films met by intense debate.

    ''What we've learned over time is the film endures and the controversy doesn't,'' said Jeanine Basinger, chairman of film studies at Wesleyan University in Middletown, Conn. If the film is bad, she said, no one will remember either.

    ''People have an entertainment experience, not a religious experience, at the movies,'' she said. ``People who go to this movie will be going to a Mel Gibson movie.''

    Gibson cowrote, directed and invested $25 million in the film, whose dialogue is in Latin and Aramaic. He is not in it.

    A spokesman for The Passion said the script that Sister Boys read was outdated and had been revised.

    ''The vast majority of the things they are afraid of are not in the film anymore,'' the movie's marketing director, Paul Lauer, said in a phone interview. ``Jews are not Christ-killers. They should not be charged with deicide . . . .''

    `OLIVE BRANCH'

    Lauer said the filmmakers had ''extended an olive branch'' by inviting the Anti-Defamation League to see the movie, and had ''gone way beyond the call of duty'' to invite critiques.

    Paula Fredriksen, a theologian who read the script, disputed Lauer's suggestion that the script had been significantly changed. She predicted the film would offend Catholics as well as Jews because its telling of the Crucifixion diverges from the Catholic Church's current teachings.

    Basinger cautioned that a movie cannot be judged solely by its script.

    Fredriksen acknowledged that scholars were at a disadvantage, but the script ``was written extremely vividly with a lot of directorial comments. This is one from our report: `The crowd is frenzied . . . It screams for his death.'

    ``That's a Jewish crowd, and that's not in the Gospels. Descriptions like that are in the script throughout.''

    For months, Gibson has been going around the country to build support for The Passion by showing a rough cut of the film to select audiences.

    Columnist Cal Thomas who saw the rough cut, called The Passion ``the most beautiful . . . realistic and bloody depiction of this well-known story that has ever been filmed.''

    Filming began last year in Italy. The movie likely will be released around Ash Wednesday. The controversy, however, began last spring.

    Articles about Gibson's efforts to be accurate to the four Gospels drew the interest of Catholic and Jewish scholars. They knew that some language about Jews in the Gospels was inflammatory, and that the Gospels, written 40 to 80 years after the Crucifixion, were neither fully historically accurate nor consistent.

    GIBSON'S DAD

    In March, a New York Times Magazine article about Gibson's father, Hutton, described him as a traditionalist Catholic who does not recognize the modern papacy and who disavows the reforms of Vatican II in 1965 -- including that all Jews, past or present, were not responsible for the killing of Jesus. The article also said Hutton Gibson does not believe in the Holocaust.

    His son is a member and financial backer of the same Catholic splinter group as his father -- though it is not known what beliefs the two share.

    Fredriksen, a theology professor at Boston University and the author of From Jesus to Christ: The Origins of the New Testament Images of Jesus, said she was one of nine New Testament scholars and professors -- five Catholics, four Jews -- assembled to examine a copy of the script. The group, she said, was organized by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops and the Anti-Defamation League.

    The script was leaked to the group of scholars in April; Gibson's people say it was stolen.

    ''When we read the screenplay, our sense was this wasn't really something you could fix,'' Sister Boys told The New York Times. ``All the way through, the Jews are portrayed as bloodthirsty. We're really concerned that this could be one of the great crises in Christian-Jewish relations.''

    IT'S `ABOUT FAITH'

    In a statement, Gibson said the film ``conforms to the narratives of Christ's passion and death found in the four Gospels of the New Testament. This is a movie about faith, hope, love and forgiveness -- something sorely needed in these turbulent times.''

    Those invited to a screening in Blue Bell, Pa., signed a confidentiality agreement about the film. (Lauer said viewers are often released from the agreement shortly after the screening.) The movie was shown with English subtitles.

    ''It was a brutally frank film and difficult to watch,'' said Elmer F. ''Bud'' Hansen, 66, a Catholic who owns the Normandy Farm Inn where the film was shown. When it ended, no one applauded, he said. ``They were almost tearful.''

    Ron Gorodetsky, 45, a restaurant consultant who is Jewish and who works with Hansen, was not on the guest list but saw about half the movie. ''I had no problem with what I saw,'' he said. ``I don't want to speak for the Jewish community, but I just can't see anything bad coming out of this. It's just a film.''

    The film is now in postproduction. There has been no decision whether it will have subtitles -- it has been screened with and without. As yet there is no distributor.

    COMMERCIAL VIEW

    Martin Grove, a columnist for the online version of The Hollywood Reporter, thinks Gibson has a chance to find a distributor, based on his fame. But Grove said most theaters would avoid showing it.

    ''What does the theater owner gain from showing this movie?'' Grove asked. ``You can bet there will be threats of violence and pickets. People will stay away from other movies playing in the same multiplex to avoid physical confrontations. There is nothing in it for a theater owner.''

    Grove said that ''probably not more than a million people'' would end up seeing The Passion. Usually, controversial films about religion -- such as Dogma and Last Temptation of Christ -- don't do well at the box office because they offend general tastes, he said.

    Fredriksen, the Boston University professor, said she loves biblical movies, but predicted this would be a dud: ``There is no plot, no character development, no subtlety. The bad guys are way bad, the good guys are way good.''

    Lauer, the movie's marketing director, sharply disagreed, saying the film was ''understated. It's not a hit-you-over-the-head religious film. It's not preachy. The story speaks to our world today, the mob mentality, the rush to condemn someone.'' Until an official of the Anti-Defamation League was permitted recently to screen the movie at the Museum of Fine Arts in Houston, the group had protested that Jewish leaders and other potential critics had been excluded from seeing it.

    Previously, Abraham Foxman, the league's national director, had expressed concerns that if Gibson's ``message was tainted, [the movie] is dangerous. He is an icon.''

    The National Association of Evangelicals strongly supports the movie and its ''authentic retelling'' of the New Testament accounts. On its website, the association's president, Ted Haggard, expressed surprise that ``some Jewish leaders would protest a movie portraying the final hours of Christ's life.''

    ''There is a great deal of pressure on Israel right now, and Christians seem to be a major source of support for Israel,'' he said. ``For Jewish leaders to risk alienating 2 billion Christians over a movie seems shortsighted.''

    'OBNOXIOUS' REMARK

    Foxman told The Times that that statement was ''obnoxious and offensive,'' and added, ``Here's the first time we've heard that linkage: We support Israel, so shut up about anti-Semitism. . . . If that's what support of Israel means, no thanks.''

    Lauer acknowledged that the controversy is drawing attention to the movie, and he said that anti-Semitism, which has often been ``marginalized, may now move front and center. That will be good.''

    He added, ``We have an opportunity here to do something positive.''
     
  2. Relativist

    Relativist Member

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    I'm intrigued by this movie as well. I haven't looked into Gibson's religious background, and haven't formed solid preconceived notions about the movie yet. Without an informed opinion, I'm sympathetic, however, to the concerns of the ADL. People seem to have a need to channel negative energy toward others. Just look at us Rockets fans and our love for the Utah Jazz. :)
     
  3. outlaw

    outlaw Member

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    Dogma made $30 million domestically on a $10 million budget. That is extremely well considering Miramax abandoned it and most mainstream theatres refused to show it.

    I just don't get why they couldn't make this film in English or at least have subtitles.
     
  4. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    I probably won't see it without subtitles given that I don't speak Latin and my Aramaic has gotten a bit rusty. I would love to see the movie, but I don't like not knowing what the characters are saying.

    Dogma was such a fun film. I loved the Metatron. The Golgothan was classic.
     
  5. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    probably needless to say...i can't wait for this movie.
     
  6. rothdaniel

    rothdaniel Member

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    I think the point of no sub-titles is that the actual visuals of the movie make the dialouge secondary.

    I am curious how (if) that will work.

    I can't wait to see the movie. Hopefully he pulls off what he is attempting.
     
  7. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Member

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    Wow, that trailer is brutal. A few images took my breath away. Literally.

    I can't wait to see this movie.

    (This is the site I went to; don't know if it's different from the one linked above: http://www.passion-movie.com/english/trailer.html )
     
  8. bamaslammer

    bamaslammer Member

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    One thing that bothers me about these Anti-Defamation League folks is that many of them are attacking this film without having even seen it! The Jews did kill Christ, one of their own. The facts are not in dispute. Does that make me an anti-semite? Of course not. I'm really sick and tired of the media attention they give these fringe pressure groups in these sort of issues. Most media outlets tend to paint these stories as an antagonist and protagonist without seeking diverse opinions not neccessarily on either end of the spectrum. People are not going to hate Jews more or less because of a film.
     
  9. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Member

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    Not to quibble, but it was the Romans who "killed" Christ.
     
  10. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    You may disagree with the authority of the source...but this is how the story was told and certainly is what Mel Gibson is working from.

    Luke 23:13-25

    13Pilate called together the chief priests, the rulers and the people, 14and said to them, "You brought me this man as one who was inciting the people to rebellion. I have examined him in your presence and have found no basis for your charges against him. 15Neither has Herod, for he sent him back to us; as you can see, he has done nothing to deserve death. 16Therefore, I will punish him and then release him."[3]
    18With one voice they cried out, "Away with this man! Release Barabbas to us!" 19(Barabbas had been thrown into prison for an insurrection in the city, and for murder.)
    20Wanting to release Jesus, Pilate appealed to them again. 21But they kept shouting, "Crucify him! Crucify him!"
    22For the third time he spoke to them: "Why? What crime has this man committed? I have found in him no grounds for the death penalty. Therefore I will have him punished and then release him."
    23But with loud shouts they insistently demanded that he be crucified, and their shouts prevailed. 24So Pilate decided to grant their demand. 25He released the man who had been thrown into prison for insurrection and murder, the one they asked for, and surrendered Jesus to their will.
     
  11. Buck88

    Buck88 Member

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    OMG.....did ya'll check out those trailers. I don't think a simple movie trailor has ever got to me like that. I felt a wierd kinda sick feeling in my stomach! I HAVE TO SEE THIS FILM! But after seeing those previews I'm not sure I'll enjoy it - not because I won't like the film but to see such a graphic and realistic portrail of Jesus's last few hours on earth that way. Well, let's just say while I'm not a overly religious person I do believe in Jesus as our Lord and savior and seeing that was very disturbing!!!!
     
  12. Rashmon

    Rashmon Member

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    For those concerned about the lack of sub-titles, and without getting religious, don't we already know the basic script pretty well?
     
  13. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Member

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    LOL

    For some strange reason, that reminded me of a Simpsons episode.

    Grandpa: Have you ever read "The Boy Who Cried Wolf''?

    Bart: I glanced at it. Boy cries wolf, has a few laughs...I forget how it ends.
     

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