This video implies that the bible is repulsive......... <object width="425" height="373"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vkXOwBIRX7Y&rel=1&border=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vkXOwBIRX7Y&rel=1&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="373"></embed></object> ..........let the debate begin.
What is to debate? That the individual who created this video hasn't read the bible either? Suggestion: Since he has a problem with the [jewish] old testament, perhaps he should present it to Israel. Maybe he would find out how much people still believe in that repulsive book over there.
There are so many whacky things about that video, I don't even know where to start. I'm like a mosquito at a nude beach.......I know what I should be doing, but just have no idea where to begin.
Most jews and israelis are pretty secluarized, with of course some notable exceptions. I mean i have been to sedars where the prayers are led-off with an obsservation that the people who are leading them are personally atheists, it's more of a cultural thing. You seem to be implying that Israelis take the bible/torah as seriously as some of their fudnatmentalist christian counterparts - with the exception of some extremists, most don't in my experience. For what its worth, I agree insofar as some of the stories in the old testament seem to have very little inherent spiritual value. They seem to teach revenge and nastiness. I'm capable of doing that on my own.
Judging a book written for multiple reasons over 2000 years beginning 4000 years ago by modern standards is silly.
he can present it to Muslims too. seems like a lot of atheist anti-Old Testament types specifically target Christians while leaving Jews and especially Muslims alone. Seems to make their arguments sound subjective, political in nature, and somewhat prejudicial.
So it's not the word of God then? Or has God's word changed, and if so, why haven't we heard about it?
I certainly believe that it is the Word of God. But just because God inspired it, it doesn't mean that he meant it all to be taken literally, or applied without prejudice across all societies. Most of the "repulsive" citations that the video uses were laws written for an ancient tribal nation that was wandering in search of a homeland. Judging those laws by modern standards is silly.
Well, I've read the bible, or at least parts of it, many times. The Torah, being the first 5 books of the OT, is just as ridiculous obviously. I have never read the Koran, but I'm sure it contains its fair share of silliness as well. However, given that the US has a loud and vocal christian majority, acive both in public and in private - i'm not sure why your surprised that people in the US discuss it more?
So if the bible is the true word of God, why wouldn't he have said, in his Word, that much of it was not meant to be interpreted literally? Is God deliberately trying to be confusing and opaque, and if so, why? And why does that contradict all of what the bible says about God's word? Or is just some of the bible God's word? If that is so, who are we to determine which is true and which is not? Are we prophets? And if we are not, who is to say that the "repulsive" parts of the bible presented in the video are the actual word of God, and not the more pleasant stuff we accept today?
Who are the people who decided what to include a thousand years ago? they don't seem any better situated to decde what is or isn't to be in the Bible based on the "word of god" criteria than you or me.
So you are saying that the bible we have today is not the actual bible? Doesn't that invalidate Christianity?
Yeah, it is not the actual bible because there is no actual bible in terms of some magic document descended from on high. Rather a bunch of guys got together at the council of nicaea and decided that certain thing fit the bill, and certain things didn't- and what we got was a version of the bible. If you think that invalidates christianity, so be it.
And on that note it is worth mentioning that when God gave the Jews the Law of Moses he was speaking to a particular group of people at a particular time in history. That's why when Jesus came he brought a new higher law that was more universally applicable. Taking random quotes out of historical context from the old testament and using them to justify Bible hatred is just as r****ded as fundamentalist Christians taking old testament quotes out of historical context and using them to promote murdering homosexuals or whomever.
Absolutely. And the Bible isn't one coherent book. It's a collection of books and letters and poetry and all sorts of writing, really...that were all written by men. Each writer had a different purpose. Some go so far as to state why they wrote what they wrote. Some go so far as to state what specific audience they are addressing. There was great thought in the early church given to whether to include the OT at all. Some thought it would only confuse and that it was unnecessary after Jesus. The thought that prevailed was that to include it was to tell the whole story. To all that pointed to who Jesus would be. Whether you believe the writings were inspired by God is a separate issue. I find truths in the Bible. I find it to be difficult to read and I often come across stuff I wish wasn't in it. I have a problem with those who empty it of its context and pull out verse by verse to justify whatever they feel like justifying. I have a problem with those who hold it up and suggest it's an operator's manual for life...because it's not. When I hear that in a church I want to vomit..and I wonder how much the person who said it has actually read it. I don't view it as a rule book...I don't think it's that simple. It's an ancient narrative that runs the scope of thousands of years that seeks to tell man's story with relation to God. I think there are literal truths in it...but I don't believe every story to be literally true. I don't care whether or not the story of Job is literally true...because I find truth in it. I don't care whether the Garden of Eden happened...because I find it keeps happening. I find truth in the forgiveness by Joseph of his family...I find truth and common ground in Habbakuk's frustrations with God for not squashing injustice...I find truth and common ground in David's intimacy with God revealed in Psalms. I think the Gospels are very different. They seek to be accounts of things that happened. They purport to be written by eyewitnesses and those making a secondary account of events in their own lifetime. Acts is set out entirely as an account of the early church. The letters from Paul and others assert a theology that arose pretty rapidly after these events transpired. I find hope in those. I see the Sermon on the Mount as being as close to a rule book or operator's manual as you can possibly get...and even it doesn't fall into the category of, "do this, do that." Later Jesus speaks in stories and communicates truths that way. As always, these things are a matter of faith. I think my call is to follow Jesus...to be as much like him as I possibly can...and I look to the Bible to help me understand what that looks like. The rest is just religion.
I grew up in the church and became ridiculously disenfranchised with the church as an adult to the point where I'm agnostic and borderline atheist. With that said, if the church had similar philosophies to what you described, I could see that being very enticing to a lot of people. It's encouraging to know that there are people that think the way you do. I hope it catches on.
