It's OK, Sam, we aren't alarmed. The state will make good, as they always have. We may see some benefit reductions (I hope not... our health care is paid for, as well, and there is also life insurance), but no reduction in payments. Constitutionally, they can't. The state would have to cut other state programs before even pondering trying to get a state constitutional amendment passed that would allow it. That amendment would not pass, either.
That's why they wanted to get this thing through as quickly as possible, the longer it drags on, the less effective it becomes.
the point is the failure of the bill was a bi-partisan effort. it's ridiculous to attempt to pin this on one party, although if the dem leadership had truly wanted it passed, they could have done so on a strict party line vote.
My biggest problem with this vote is that no alternative plans have been considered. I don't claim to be a financial expert, but it seems economists and lots of financial experts on the right and left are saying Paulson's plan doesn't get to the root of the problem and at best will merely delay the failure of the bad banks while hamstringing the federal government's ability to to respond to economic recession/depression. Something needs to be done, but it may be possible that a bad plan is worse than no plan. I don't blame any Democrat for not wanting to carry the water for the fallout of what they see as a Republican problem. I just hope they exhibit leadership and craft an alternative plan in line with their values and swallow the bitter pill of putting that through.
Screw that. The Dems should pass it without them, and they should go and spend millions advertising that the GOP voted for a Depression in order to play politics. That they screwed the pooch on oversight and they ran away from their responsibility when it came time to actually lead on an issue. Use the GOP's own leadership's words against those rogue House members. These people are idiots and they should be exposed as idiots. The Dems shouldn't be so stupid as to sacrifice the economy to avoid responsibility. If they have the votes, they should do it. No playing politics because they don't want to be blamed for it - this is where real leadership matters.
Eventually, there will be a bill passed. No telling how much damage will be caused in the meantime, but there will be a bill passed.
No, politics is a very big part of this. I'm merely pointing out the political consequences of this thing... I just didn't make the point as coherently as you did because I'm so pissed off at what all this means. Thoroughly preventable had we had sane people governing the last 8 years.
I simply disagree. You speak as if money will cover a lot of "sins." I don't think it would. The GOP is looking for something, anything, to save this election for them. If they can win while the market and economy tanks, and Democrats "hand them" the means, they will. Call me a cynic. I don't care. No way the Democrats should carry the water of the failure of the Bush Administration and the former GOP Congress for them. No ****ing way.
No offense, basso, but you're far worse on that. You play politics with every issue. Rim's got concerns about this bill, but my opinion is more that he doesn't really grasp the depth of the economics here (no offense intended, rim - i think most people don't understand where this really leads), as opposed to simply partisan politics. Even if you're totally against spending $700B on this, the cost of a Depression in terms of lost tax revenues and added social costs will far outweigh that. So you're looking at spending even more tax money and not even solving the problem.
I'm standing with the Street, because the Street is correct in this instance. You're correct that the bill wouldn't have prevented it - but it's not meant to prevent anything that's already happened just to dampen the fallout. Is it guaranteed to work? no. Is there a better option out there? Not really - certainly not the House Republicans ridiculous plan ("cut the cap gains tax!" lol yeah that will work) . I don't understand your whole "change the system" plan. What do you even mean by that?
Trust me... you aren't any more pissed off than I am about all this. The incompetence of the Republican Party is breathtaking. If the House has to keep trying to get passage of a bipartisan bill while the market is busy destroying the savings and investments of countless Americans, that's the position the country was placed in by the Republican Party.
i agree, and i agree with the republican leadership, that the bill (was) a crap sandwich, but it's better than the alternative, and it was time to suck it up and vote for it. pelosi demanded political cover, she got (just) enough from the republicans, but lost 40% of her own caucus in the process. the bills failure is on her. the consequences of it's failure are, unfortunately, on all of us.
My liberal heart says let these Wall Street bloodsuckers burn. My pragmatic brain says we need to swallow this bitter pill however odious.
I'm not willing to do any of that... it is where we are... and a sucky plan that you supported that would sacrifice $700,000,000,000 to the greed and malfeasance of the people running Wall Street and the administration ain't gonna change it. Again, I was willing to support this amended bill as doing something now that's not nearly as bad as the original proposal, but if it is truly dead, I won't mourn it.
