Yes, they did play their best. Sadly, the team currently consists of zero talent next to McGrady due to no fault of the players. McGrady was hustling for offensive boards in the third quarter with the game already in the bag, certainly didn't look like someone who "quit" to me. ALL our guys were hustling and trying to make something happen, but reality is you don't win in this league unless you have starter-caliber players on your roster, which we currently don't have. When McGrady went down, we went 0-8 despite the fact that almost our entire supporting cast was playing. Now, however, the entire supporting cast is injured ALONG with Yao AND his backup Dikembe. You're saying "the team quit", and I am telling you "no, they didn't quit, they just suck so bad that it's almost impossible to see them win another game without at least a couple of the injured role players coming back." Clearly, we have a difference of opinion. I think McGrady is emotionally drained because of the incredibly rough season they've been enjoying so far. You want to blame him for saying a few things you didn't like? Fine, that's your choice. I understand the need to point fingers when things go bad, so yah I guess he would be an easy target. All I am saying is this: injuries are why the Rockets suck right now, and their situation won't change or turn around until players start getting healthy. Heck, even from the current 9-man rotation we have, both Moochie and McGrady are playing through injuries. This is just not a healthy team, and I haven't seen a lineup destroyed by injuries like this in at least 10 years or more. This is NOT the team we're supposed to have, and if you want to bit** and moan about "effort" or this or that, be my guest. But I am here to tell you that you're dead wrong, and you're simply refusing to believe that we do actually suck that badly when 6 players of our normal 8-man rotation to start the season are out. What "honeymoon" are you talking about? McGrady is not "teflon" or anything like that, he's a guy that has won at least 5 games this season with clutch shots despite his injuries and our struggles as a team. Forgive me if I cut him and Yao a little slack when their teammates suck this bad; Name me two other star players that do as much for their teams as these two guys. They never once complained, they both played hard and played through all the ups and downs, and both worked their arses off in the off-season because they are hungry to win, and haven't given me a reason to question their commitment to winning or the team game. We just disagree man, I don't point fingers and blame people when things go sour unless I feel like it's well-deserved. As fans, it's natural for us to complain about this player or the other, because that's just a part of being a fan. Go ahead, blame him, point fingers or whatever else makes you sleep better at night. IMO, you're way off base in your analysis. Fascinating, ain't it? It's as if people already know the answer as to why we are playing crappy right now and yet insist on ignoring the facts. Oh, well...
tigermission, like I said, I'm not blaming Tracy for the team losing, I'm blaming him for his quitting last night, and the night before, and reminding you that he has a history, which he admitted himself. If you think that was a fine effort, I'll send you some tapes of when Larry Smith had to fill in for Hakeem in 91. That my friend was effort, not what you saw last night.
As I said, I don't think a man hustling for offensive boards late in a blowout game is quitting. I don't agree at all with your analysis. Did he have a history of that? Yes, because he admitted so. However, if I do see that he has quit regardless of the situation, I will be the first person to jump on him. Deal? Until then, it's unfair to hold him hostage to his past, when he voluntarily admitted to it, took a wave of criticism for it, and made an honest attempt to leave those days behind him. BTW, I didn't say McGrady had a "fine" game or anything like that, because he clearly played poorly the past two games, but playing poorly is NOT the same as playing without effort; players struggle all the time especially when they're double and triple teamed throughout entire games. Have you watched the game and seen how he's defended? He's defended before he even makes a move, and is forced everytime down the court to pass to someone else, because that's how teams are going to play him. He can't even get in a scoring position or let alone dribble without being forced to give the ball up. I don't know about you, but I don't want to see McGrady (as a great talent as he might be) forcing three pointers over two players in his grill, and I would rather he swings the ball to the open man because regardless that open player will have a better chance of making the shot. In the Raptors game, McGrady struggled on offense, but he played very well in every other aspect of the game. He's not forcing the action, and you call him lazy; when he forces the action, he's called selfish and "Me-Mac". Refer to what JVG said if you would rather have a "professional" opinion on the matter. JVG said McGrady can't win in either case, and he's right. However, I don't feel sorry for T-Mac, because as the franchise player that's just something he has to live with: you get the criticism when the team struggles, and some of the praise when they win.
I completely agree with you. You could not have put it better. I hope TMAC is currently injured because if what I am seeing is the real deal, then I may have to put him two notches below Kobe Bryant. I have been dissapointed to say the least even though I am cognisant of our current situation. Howard, Head, Wesley and Bowen should NEVER EVER show more heart and desire more than our best player, TMAC, no matter the situation (save for injured induced slacking). I still believe in Mac though but not as enthused as I used to be of him and his character. I am still exponentially glad we have him in our fold as opposed to the other options presented to us. That said, I am begining to now understand more about the dog-mentality Chucky and Kenny The Jet have been talking about in regards to every teams best player.
you get criticism when you admit to quitting, and you get criticism when you're always talking about how hard your situation is. He has a history of that also, blaming his teamates when Orlando lost to Charlotte and which he is already doing in today's chronicle.
Clearly, you're forgetting the Kobe from last season. If there is one player I would've mentioned to make my case, it would be Allen Iverson, not Kobe Bryant. BTW, Duncan cruises through seasons more than you would ever think, but he can afford to because he has a solid team around him, and he has three rings to show for it. Shaq almos skips season games entirely and "saves" himself for the playoffs. Those two guys are the two most dominant big men in the league, and certainly the two best players on their teams (and in Shaq's case, he did that also with the Lakers). Both guys have three rings each. Both don't have that "dog-mentality" that Barkley talks about all the time. Granted, our two best players are not those types of players Barkley would like them to be, but so are many, many other superstars whom have had considerable success in this league. Barkley would've likely said the same exact thing about the Admiral and Dream if he was working with TNT before either one won rings, because they just didn't have Barkley's mentality. What Sir Charles says is not the Gospel, it's his opinion. Certainly, a team can be successful having the likes of Vernon Maxwell, Bobby Sura, and Avery Johnsons as their emotional leaders, without being their best players; history has proven that this is possible. Would it be ideal to have your best player also your emotional warrior that riles up the troops? Yes. However, is it in ANY way indicative of greatness or leadership or a "winning" attitude? No.
Your comments are weaker than last night's loss, it's almost like you were related to John Gabriel. Don't judge everyone by a few comments, you'll never find a single post dogging our players from me, search all that you want. R2K, Uprising, Jeffster, and only a couple of others, seem to be the only real fans on gameday. Yes, it was painful to watch. However, this is not the first time that things look down, you're one of those fair-weather fans, and that's not excusable either. Just remember that there has never been an individual that willed his team to victories consistently on his own. Your comments are too weak, just go root for Orlando.
I got twenty years invested in rooting for this team. I rooted for this team when Sampson went down, when Lou and Mitch fell to drugs, when even Hakeem's group was barely playing .500 ball. I already referenced watching this team when Larry Smith was grabbing 15 boards a night in Hakeem's absence. Do you even know who Mr. Mean is. So all you guys who didn' start watching the rockets till they won rings or got Yao Ming calling me fair wheather is beyond ridiculous.
Very fair and sound points you make there. Something went wrong in the last two games. I love tmac's game savvy and unselfishness but for the first time as a Rocket I found myself questioning his heart of heart. I have NEVER EVER done that to The Dream and I I am not a Spurs Fans to say that of Admiral or not. It seemed to me that Mac did not really try. Yao's case (hidden injury) has thought me not to jump to conclussion all the way. I suspect Mac is injured or hurting bad - or maybe I am in denial but what I saw in the last two games was borderline quitting. Losing hardly worry me especially when we try and give our best. I believe I am rational enough to analize things as fairly as the next man/woman. That said I will continue to hold out hope that that which I sensed or saw was simply an aberration - I don't even care how injured a team we are.
I didn't watch the last two games, so I don't know why people think T-Mac "quits" the team. But just by looking at the stat box, didn't he attempt to shoot 17 times, but only made a few? Wasn't it due to double and triple teaming, and not because he didn't want to shoot or try to shoot? We got to clear up what is the criteria to say T-Mac quits or did not do enough effort. Was it because we lost? If T-Mac was to attempt to shoot 17 times, and we won, would we say T-Mac is incredible? Looking at the box score again, in the last game other than Juwan Howard, all other role players shot an incredible 18.75% FG. Was this also T-Mac's fault of not being able to be a leader and make others better? This team's problem can be due to many reasons: 1. Offensive set which is geared to Yao 2. Bad role players 3. Lack of leadership (T-Mac easily quits and can't make others better) 4. Bad coaching 5. Yao is soft and can't lead this team to victory (this point has been brought up so many times when T-Mac was out and we were 0-8). 6. Too many freaking injuries. Deke, Alston, Sura, DA all out. I think our main problem now is more like no 2 and no 6. All of our better role players is out with injuries, and we ended up relying on rookie, CBA player, and player which rarely see play time.
Fair enough. But I will just say that I didn't see what you and pgabriel apparently saw, which is McGrady "quitting" or appearing to have given up on the team. I just didn't see it, honest truth. But, I can see how it might seem so.
when ryan bowen, lonnie baxter, stephen graham, and moochie norris are four of your most significant rotation players your team f#$king sucks. with the injuries this team has no player in the nba could keep this team afloat and that includes t-mac. this team when completely healthy is very very good. probably not better than the spurs but certainly as good as anyone else in this conference. in light of that i find out alot of posts bashing jvg, yao, or even t-mac ridiculous. what can you really do with the players that are out there?
BigM, That, too, is how I perceive the situation we're in now. I just think that injuries in this case stand out so much that it's very, very, very difficult for me to place blame on either the coach or the players. IMO, those guys were battling out there the past two games, but just aren't nearly good enough. The NBA is tough to win in when your players' health is not a concern, let alone when almost the entire team is on the MemorialHermann injury list. Furthermore, there has been such an incredible infusion of young talent in this league tha past 3-4 years that even the crappiest teams in the league (Atlanta, Charlotte, Toronto, etc.) have enormous talent on paper and are not push-arounds anymore. The landscape of the league has changed, talent is not an issue anymore for most teams, but other factors are -- meaning that it's much tougher to 'beat-up' on inferior teams; even the Spurs have found that out a few teams this season. Ironically, however, health and overall talent have been our achilles' heal and what seems to hold us back from that next step of being an elite team, joining the likes of the Spurs and the Pistons.
First of all let me start off with this... Excuses are like A$$ Holes everyone has one.... All of these guys are pro basketball players and they had to beat another player out to get into this league. Second this is a team game and those guys are a part of this team. So when their number gets called they are there to produce.... PERIOD. If T-Mac is the leader that he say he is or wants to be, then it is his job to rise to the occasion. A leader does what it takes to get the job done. The best basketball role models that I have seen in the past would have to be Magic and Bird. They did what ever it took to get the job done. Inspiring players both my example and getting into their face... And this did not always mean cussing them out, but my giving them condfidence that they could get the job done. They played any position never complaining... Again by example... They also did not have to score 50+ game. They got all their teammates into the game early which in turn made it difficult for the defense to double them. Now do I blame T-Mac entirely no.... It is also the job of the coach to adjust to the hand he has been dealt... Improvise, motivate and inspire the players you have to get everything out of them and then some. By the way a lot of the post on this board is bashing, a lot of it is just the telling the truth....
No, but when you have an inferior lineup as opposed to your opponents, that tends to happen more times than not. Also, Bird and Magic played with teams loaded with HOFamers throughout their careers, not to take anything away from them, but might be a relevant point to take into consideration. I would have loved to see what Bird and Magic could do with Moochie Norris and Ryan Bowen, it would've been entertaining, I reckon.
