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Stimulating Murder

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Jul 9, 2011.

  1. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    Hypocrisy at its finest?

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/bpwYh9TD6Nc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  2. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    That's a pretty big conclusion you are jumping too.
     
  3. bmb4516

    bmb4516 Member

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    From the most recent CRS report on EP:

    As indicated in the above discussion, recent appellate court rulings cast considerable doubt on the broad claims of privilege posited by OLC in the past and now reiterated by the Clement Memo and the July 10, 2007, OLC opinion on absolute witness immunity. Taken together, Espy and Judicial Watch arguably have effected important qualifications and restraints on the nature, scope and reach of the presidential communications privilege. As established by those cases, and until reviewed by the Supreme Court, the following elements appear to be essential to appropriately invoke the privilege:

    1. The protected communication must relate to a “quintessential and nondelegable presidential power.” Espy and Judicial Watch involved the
    appointment and removal and the pardon powers, respectively. Other core,
    direct precedential decisionmaking powers include the Commander-inChief power, the sole authority to receive ambassadors and other public
    ministers, and the power to negotiate treaties. It would arguably not
    include decisionmaking with respect to laws that vest policymaking and
    administrative implementation authority in the heads of department and
    agencies or which allow presidential delegations of authority.

    2. The communication must be authored or “solicited and received” by a
    close White House advisor (or the President). The judicial test is that an
    advisor must be in “operational proximity” with the President. This
    effectively means that the scope of the presidential communications
    privilege extends only to the administrative boundaries of the Executive
    Office of the President and the White House.

    3. The presidential communications privilege remains a qualified privilege
    that may be overcome by a showing that the information sought “likely
    contains important evidence” and the unavailability of the information
    elsewhere by an appropriate investigating authority. The Espy court found
    an adequate showing of need by the Independent Counsel; while in
    Judicial Watch, the court found the privilege did not apply, and the
    deliberative process privilege was unavailing.

    http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/secrecy/RL30319.pdf
     
  4. basso

    basso Member
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    so he either had prior direct knowledge, or he's overreaching.
     
  5. bmb4516

    bmb4516 Member

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    Exactly.
     
  6. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    Holder should be in prison. Sometimes you have to do what is right.
     
  7. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Not quite, wikipedia brown. But good try!
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. bmb4516

    bmb4516 Member

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    CRS != Wikipedia
     
  9. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Why don't you unpack this statement for me.
     
  10. bmb4516

    bmb4516 Member

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    CRS does not equal Wikipedia.
     
  11. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Why don't you unpack this statement for me.
     
  12. bmb4516

    bmb4516 Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  13. basso

    basso Member
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    Holder <s>unpacks</s> retracts claim Bush team knew about Fast and Furious

    In a second major retraction over its version of the the gun-walking scandal, the Justice Department has retracted Attorney General Eric Holder's charge in a hearing last week that his Bush administration predecessor had been briefed on the affair.

    In a memo just released by Sen. Chuck Grassley, the Iowa senator reveals that Holder also didn't apologize to former Attorney General Michael Mukasey for dragging him into the Fast & Furious scandal that is headed for a major legal clash and likely contempt of Congress charge against Holder.

    According to Grassley's memo, Justice said that Holder "inadvertently" made the charge against Mukasey in a hearing.

    Here is the full text of the Grassley memo:

    To: Reporters and Editors

    Re: Second retraction of Fast and Furious Assertions

    Da: Wednesday, June 20, 2012

    The Justice Department has retracted a second statement made to the Senate Judiciary Committee. During a hearing last week, Attorney General Eric Holder claimed that his predecessor, then-Attorney General Michael Mukasey, had been briefed about gunwalking in Operation Wide Receiver. Now, the Department is retracting that statement and claiming Holder "inadvertently" made that claim to the Committee. The Department's letter failed to apologize to former Attorney General Mukasey for the false accusation. This is the second major retraction the Justice Department has made in the last seven months. In December 2011, the Department retracted its claim that the ATF had not allowed illegally purchased guns to be trafficked to Mexico. Sen. Chuck Grassley's letter and the Department's response can be viewed here-1.

    In addition, the Justice Department released only one page of additional material prior to the Attorney General's meeting on Capitol Hill on Tuesday. It is a page of handwritten notes by a public affairs specialist for the Deputy Attorney General, which the Department says it "just recently discovered." The notes indicate that when Deputy Assistant Attorney General Jason Weinstein met with senior ATF officials on April 28, 2010, regarding the problem of gunwalking in Wide Receiver, the Deputy Attorney General's public affairs specialist also attended the meeting. These notes can be viewed here-2.

    The notes indicate that Fast and Furious was also a topic discussed at the meeting, in addition to Wide Receiver. These notes further corroborate contemporaneous emails in 2010 that show Criminal Division Chief Lanny Breuer and Weinstein seemed to have been more concerned about the press implications of gunwalking than they were about making sure ATF ended the practice. (These emails can be viewed here-3.) The notes also undermine the claim that senior DOJ officials failed to "make the connection" between the gunwalking in Wide Receiver--which Breuer admitted to knowing about--and gunwalking in Fast and Furious. In fact, both cases were discussed by senior Department leadership and senior ATF leadership.

    Grassley made the following comment on these developments.

    "This is the second time in nearly seven months that the Department has gotten its facts wrong about gunwalking. Attorney General Holder accused Attorney General Mukasey, without producing any evidence, of having been briefed on gunwalking in Wide Receiver. The case Attorney General Mukasey was briefed on, Hernandez, is fundamentally different from both Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious since it involved cooperation with the Mexican government. Attorney General Holder's retraction should have included an apology to the former Attorney General.

    "In his eagerness to blame the previous administration, Attorney General Holder got his facts wrong. And his tactic didn't bring us any closer to understanding how a bad policy evolved and continued. Bad policy is bad policy, regardless of how many administrations carried it out. Ironically, the only document produced yesterday by the Department appears to show that senior officials in the Attorney General's own Department were strategizing about how to keep gunwalking in both Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious under wraps."
     
  14. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Link? This thread will be locked if it is not provided, per established BBS policy.

    Tick tock.
     
  15. basso

    basso Member
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    sure.

    Murdered Border Agent’s Family Says President Obama ‘Compounding This Tragedy’ with Executive Privilege Assertion

    The family of slain U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian Terry, who was killed with guns tied to the Fast and Furious program, issued a statement Wednesday afternoon accusing President Obama of compounding their family tragedy by invoking executive privilege.

    President Obama invoked executive privilege to shield the Justice Department from having to release documents sought by House Republican investigating the secret law enforcement program, wherein weapons smugglers were permitted to buy guns so law enforcement could trace them to drug cartels. Law enforcement lost track of hundreds of the guns, which began showing up at crime scenes, most tragically in December 2010, where Terry was killed.
    Terry family attorney Pat McGroder on Wednesday released the following statement from Terry’s parents Josephine Terry and Kent Terry Sr.: “Attorney General Eric Holder’s refusal to fully disclose the documents associated with Operation Fast and Furious and President Obama’s assertion of executive privilege serves to compound this tragedy. It denies the Terry family and the American people the truth.”

    The Terrys said that their son “was killed by members of a Mexican drug cartel armed with weapons from this failed Justice Department gun trafficking investigation. For more than 18 months we have been asking our federal government for justice and accountability. The documents sought by the House Oversight Committee and associated with Operation Fast and Furious should be produced and turned over to the committee. Our son lost his life protecting this nation, and it is very disappointing that we are now faced with an administration that seems more concerned with protecting themselves rather than revealing the truth behind Operation Fast and Furious.”

    Earlier today, Josephine Terry was on Philadelphia Talk Radio 1210 WPHT.
    Asked about the president’s assertion, she said, “The only thing I can say is, if he did that they apparently don’t want Issa to get the documents to see what’s in there.”

    “My son and I were very, very close,” she continued. “And my son was a person that believed in justice and he believed in telling the truth. He was a man of his honor. And if anybody knew him, they knew that. And I know he would be saying ‘you know what, I died for my country.’ He was a true American and I think he deserves the truth and I think everybody should know the truth. And if this was a bad thing they did with Fast and Furious it should be acknowledged so it never happens to anybody else’s son.”
    -Jake Tapper and Mary Bruce

    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politic...s-tragedy-with-executive-privilege-assertion/
     
  16. basso

    basso Member
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    committee votes to hold Holder in contempt. now goes to full house, vote next week.
     
    #176 basso, Jun 20, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2012
  17. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    Next thing you know, Issa will be calling Holder "uppity".....
     
  18. basso

    basso Member
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    [​IMG]
     
  19. Classic

    Classic Member

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    Candidate Obama>President Obama
     
  20. basso

    basso Member
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    Zapatistas fight back.

    ICE agent's family files wrongful death claim against DOJ

    By Sharyl Attkisson Topics Law and Order
    U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) Special Agent Jaime Zapata was shot and killed in the line of duty Feb. 15 2011 after he was attacked by unknown assailants while driving between Monterrey, Mexico, and Mexico City. (Credit: U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement ) CBS News has learned that the family of ICE Special Agent Jaime Zapata has filed a claim for wrongful death against the Justice Dept. and other federal agencies. Zapata was gunned down by suspected drug cartel members in Mexico in Feb. 2011 with weapons later linked to an ATF case in the Texas area. Joining the claim is Zapata's surviving partner in the attack: Victor Avila.
    In an interview last November, Zapata's family told CBS News they feel that US law enforcement could have stopped the sale of a gun used to kill their son. CBS News obtained law enforcement records that show the gun that killed Zapata came from the US, and the suspects who allegedly trafficked it had been under law enforcement's watch for months in Dallas but weren't arrested.

    In February, CBS News learned a second weapon used in the Zapata attack was also linked to an ongoing case under the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.

    The Justice Department has said ATF "was not aware of" the suspect's purchase of the gun that killed Zapata when it happened, and that answering further questions would jeopardize the investigation.
     

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