I don't usually engage in Yao this and Yao that threads. But I've spent 5 minutes this morning reading the Yao stats threads and thinking about Yao's developement. So, it wouldn't hurt I chime in and share it here. One big reason for Yao's improvement on Stats sheet is the touches. The current Rockets team is so depeleted of talent other than Tmac and Yao, Yao becomes the main weapon and has to carry the team. In the recent games, I notice the Rockets go inside to Yao almost exclusively for a long stretch even when Tmac is on the floor, even after his consecutive misses. This is especially true after Tmac comes back from his back injury. Of couse, props to Yao for being more decisive in the post, and recognizing Double teams better. But I don't see significant difference in the way Yao is playing. Just that earlier in his career, he never get so many touches, or the team so stick with him. Even last season, I remember, guards would waive him after some of his misses or turnovers. This season? I rarely see that if ever. The team often sticks to going to Yao even when he isn't on fire (they don't have much else option). And Yao rewards them with better plays. So, I guess this is the one area JVG succeeded. By tooling over the roster, by making it an emphasis, he forced Yao to be more of a main man on this team. I wish next time someone comes up with a Yao spreadsheet, he can show Yao touches, shot attemps (incluing FTs), in addition to the ususal stats. That would be cool, and I can have a better idea of my 5 munites' worth.
Compare two NBA players with stats broken down by season. <pre>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>Year G Min FGM FGA Pct FTM FTA Pct Off Def Tot Ast TO Stl Blk PF PPG<br>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>1st 80 28.7 4.5 09.2 49.1 1.3 1.9 70.5 2.2 4.1 06.3 1.8 1.4 1.1 1.6 2.4 10.4<br>2nd 77 38.9 7.1 14.3 49.9 2.7 3.5 75.4 2.5 5.6 08.0 3.1 2.3 1.4 2.1 2.6 17.0<br>3rd 82 39.3 7.7 15.8 49.1 3.0 4.1 73.8 2.7 6.9 09.6 4.2 2.3 1.7 1.8 2.7 18.5<br>4th 47 37.9 8.8 19.2 46.0 3.1 4.4 70.4 3.5 6.9 10.4 4.3 2.9 1.7 1.8 3.2 20.8<br>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>1st 82 29.0 4.9 09.8 49.8 3.7 4.5 81.1 2.4 5.8 08.2 1.7 2.1 0.4 1.8 2.8 13.5<br>2nd 82 32.8 6.5 12.5 52.2 4.4 5.4 80.9 2.4 6.6 09.0 1.5 2.5 0.3 1.9 3.3 17.5<br>3rd 80 30.6 6.7 12.2 55.2 4.9 6.2 78.3 2.6 5.8 08.4 0.8 2.5 0.4 2.0 3.7 18.3<br>4th 39 33.9 7.7 15.2 50.8 5.4 6.5 83.3 2.7 7.3 10.0 1.4 2.4 0.5 1.5 3.4 20.8<br>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br></pre> Who are they?
I think you are wrong. In the past, Yao would have easily turned the ball over for 5 times or commited 3 fouls in one quarter and took himself out of the game. So I don't buy your argument that the better stats are due to more touches rather than Yao's improvement. I believe a lot of people will agree with me.
Easy, look at free throw percentages. The other one is the one this board passionately compare to in terms of progress.
Turnover? By looking at the post above yours. It's virtually the same as last year. Fouls? it could be. His minutes played per game is higher. I didn't rule out other factors, just that touches might be a big reason. (fouls and minutes contribute to the touches, isn't it?)
How 'bout "all of the above"? Michecon, I don't think NBA (or any other entities for that matter) keeps track of data on "touches."
Great, except that during that 4th season Garnett was the same age as Yao was during his first season. That's 3 years of significant physical development (like the difference between a Freshman and a Senior in college).
you give props to YAO by saying he is more decisive in the post and reads double teams better, but then say that you do not see a significant change in the way YAO is playing? what other areas can YAO improve in? YAOs increase in touches is DUE to his newfound confidence and agression. also....touches have nothing to do with his increase in rebounding.
But everyone develops differently - both mentally and physically. Lebron was physically ahead of 90% of NBA players out there the second he entered the league. We can't just say so and so is this age, he should be in his prime, or physically mature. It's clear, looking at Yao now vs then, and looking at KG 4 years in versus rookie year, that they both, regardless of age, had maturing to do physically. And given KG was the first of the new wave of HS'ers, and Yao came with so many varying expectations, that they both had mental developement to do as well. Yao's career will never be as long as KG's, and like never as good anyway, but that is part of the Yao package.
He still has his occasional embarrassing moment in the post. Anyway, I'm not dismissing the other aspect. I just want to emphasize the "team sticks more with him" aspect. As to rebounding, I don't pay that much attention to numbers. 9 rpg, 10 rpg. Whatever. He usually did his job, even when the number wasn't there. I've defend him when he has 0 rebs in halftime (just recently). Number isn't the issue for me. And I don't have big expectations of his reb number.
If you look at Garnett's stats, it's clear that he wasn't developed fully by the time he was 22. He continued to develop each of the next five years, up until he averaged 24 and 14 when he was 27. He had alot of maturing to do, starting out in the NBA out of high school. Similarly, yeah LeBron was better than 90% of NBA players out of high school. But that is just a testament to his talent, because Lebron at 18/19 was nowhere close to where he is now (21, 6, 6 versus 31, 7, 7). And given the history of successful high school-to-NBA players (Kobe, KG, McGrady, etc.), it takes at least 6 years for them to hit their peak, so we haven't seen the best of LBJ yet. Not that I don't think Yao is a star, he is. I think he's developing to be as good as I'd hoped he would when I originally predicted Brad Daugherty-type numbers for him someday (22 and 11). If he can reach that plateau and sustain it, he'll be a perennial All-Star and a vital cog on our team for the next decade.
what has to change in YAOs game, for you to see some signifigance? he went from "I am happy to be here, and thankful for my teammates" to give me the @#$% ball, and lets win this @#$% game!" that is pretty significant, and his teammates are realizing it, and that is why his touches have gone up.
My point was only that it continues to be fair to make the KG/Yao comparison because their growths (physically, emotionally, and skill-wise) have been similiar DESPITE their differences in age and abilities.
I wonder whether KG or Yao was more physically ready when they joined the NBA. Yao in his first NBA year looked like someone you could beat him up and steal his lunch. May be you would think twice just because he's 7'6". But that also made it easier at that time for the other players to toss him around like a rag doll due to the law of gravity.
No, he doesn't have "give me the @#$% ball" , yet. He raises his hand asking for the ball, as always. But his teammates are giving him more. That's my point. By significance, I mean he pretty much plays the way he played. Same moves, baseline spin, hooks, fadeaway. He still rely more on fadeaway than going up strong, drawing fouls. Still tend to lay it up than dunking it. He improves, but not significantly. BTW, I can see this kind of thread is favored less than all these "yao finally a 20/10 man" or "yao among the all time best centers". But, if you guys are thinking I'm slighting Yao Ming, you pick a wrong person to fight.
