Spiritual Warfare?

i believe in spiritual warefare, but i can't begin to spectulate on what is going on. my understanding is there will be wars and rumours of wars but that is just a sign of the end of times. no one will know the ACTUAL end time..................BUT ITS A WAKE UP CALL FOR SURE.

 

I believe that the Bible is true, and the Bible describes spiritual warfare in many places.

Here are some links that talk about what the Bible says about angels and demons:

What are angels

What do they do

What are demons

Obviously it's hard to produce physical evidence about spiritual matters by definition, but the Bible hasn't been proven to be false so far. It's true in my life.

"The coming of the lawless one is apparent in the working
of Satan, who uses all power, signs, lying wonders, and
every kind of wicked deception for those who are perishing,
because they refused to love the truth and so be saved."
(2 Thess 9-10)


So what's at stake? Well, if you don't believe in spiritual warfare, you don't believe the Bible. If you don't believe the Bible, you don't believe the promise of John 3:16. And if you don't believe that, then the Bible says your sins will be found unacceptable by God and you must spend eternity apart from Him.(Hell)

 

I find your line intresting, as I was discussing this with someone the other day. I would like to get the scripture about the "wars and rumors of wars"

I've always believed the bible was cryptic. As we discussed in the past about evolution, the bible does not base everything one day after the next. IMO, the "end times" started with the creation of man. I guess the best way to describe this is by a popular lyric "Im dying since the day I was born". There has always been wars and rumors of wars. The bible says there will be great evil in the last days...there has always been evil since the begining of Man. If you look back in the dark ages, it was more evil then than now. We oooo and awe over why someone would kill 5500 innocent lives, but a 1000 years ago, people would do that in a heart beat if it was possible.

I personally get tired of all these doomsday Religious leaders who point every little "bad" thing towards the end of the world.

 

Here's the scripture:
Matthew 24

A third of the Bible is prophecy, while a third of that relates to the end times (the other 2/3 are about the Messiah and Israel). You would be surprised just how many of those end time prophecies are conceivable right now.

 

no, you misread it.

"A third of the Bible is prophecy, while a third of that relates to the end times (the other 2/3 are about the Messiah and Israel)."

1/3 is prophecy.

Of the 1/3 that is prophecy, 1/3 is about the end of times.

The 2/3 that is not prophecy is about the messiah and Israel.

 

i'm with gootan on this one.

I'm reminded instantly of Paul talking about it being principalities that we're ultimately at war with. You guys may have quoted to that scripture already.

But the great news is when Paul goes on to say that NOTHING (and he details just about everything you might think could) can separate us from the love of God. I can't think of anything more relevant than that here for us now.

gootan -- as for prophecies that are "ready to go." Which ones do you mean?? I'm interested. It seems that we're nowhere near the sort of uniform, one-world kinda stuff that Revelations kinda leads us to before the end. And of course we have no clue when the Rapture is (before or after which events?? -- if you have some clues on that, I'd really appreciate you posting!)

 

Why wasn't Tyre destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar as prophesied by Ezekiel (Ezekiel 26)? When it was destroyed by Alexander the Great, why didn't it remain desolate as prophesied by Ezekiel?

How can it be that Isaiah prophesied a temporary destruction of Tyre, while Ezekiel prophesied a permanent destruction (Ezekiel 26:14,21; 27:36; 28:19 versus Isaiah 23:13-18)?

Why wasn't there a 40-year period in Egypt's history when the whole land was devoid of people and animals, as prophesied by Ezekiel (Ezekiel 29:11-12)?

 

Who convinced David to number Isreal? Was it the Lord (2 Sam. 24:1) or Satan(1 Chr. 21:1)?


How did Saul die? Was it suicide (1 Sam. 31:4-6, 1 Chr. 10:4)? Was he killed by an Amalekite (2 Sam. 1:8-10)? Or was it the Phillistines (2 Sam. 21:12)? Oh wait, it was God (1 Chr. 10:14).


Did Jesus say he would always be with the disciples? Yes, according to Mt. 28:20. But not according to Mt. 26:11, Mk. 14:7, or Jn. 12:8.

Now none of this is to say that you can't be a Christian but the Bible is definitely false, at least in parts, since it directly contradicts intself literally hundreds of times...

 

tpl-

Tyre was actually two cities. One on the coast and the other on an island. Nebuchadnezzar destroyed the coastal Tyre in 587 BC - 574 BC. The island Tyre was destroyed by Alexander the Great in 332 BC.

Who says there wasn't? It happened 4000 years ago after Babylon destroyed Jerusalem.

dylan-

Satan being Satan wanted David to sin. David thought all he had done was his own accomplishment, thus he was proud. That pride was a sin which God cannot stand. So God allowed Satan to convince David to carry out the census.

1 Samuel 31
1
Now the Philistines fought against Israel; the Israelites fled before them, and many fell slain on Mount Gilboa.
2
The Philistines pressed hard after Saul and his sons, and they killed his sons Jonathan, Abinadab and Malki-Shua.
3
The fighting grew fierce around Saul, and when the archers overtook him, they wounded him critically.
4
Saul said to his armor-bearer, "Draw your sword and run me through, or these uncircumcised fellows will come and run me through and abuse me." But his armor-bearer was terrified and would not do it; so Saul took his own sword and fell on it.
5
When the armor-bearer saw that Saul was dead, he too fell on his sword and died with him.
6
So Saul and his three sons and his armor-bearer and all his men died together that same day.

The Phillistines defeated his army, killed his sons, and just surrounded him and shot him w/ arrows. They caused him to commit suicide.
The Amalekite who reported this to David thought David hated Saul (since Saul was trying to kill David). The Amalekite thought that the "killer of king David's biggest enemy" would get a big reward from king David, that's why he lied. (The Amalekites were also Israel's enemies though.)

Considering that Jesus claimed He was God(which means He is all powerful, all knowing, and everywhere as well as unconditionally loving), He died the most humiliating death for your sins, was placed in a tomb with a big rock and big roman centurions guarding the entrance, was resurrected after three days, and appeared to hundreds of people afterward who talked to Him, touched Him, and/or ate with Him, you still have trouble putting this concept into context?

I'm glad you guys made an attempt to check the validity of the Bible. You're effort could have gone alot further though. Let me remind you guys that the person or persons who truly disproves the Bible are going to be the most famous people on the planet. (and probably rich too) Leno, Letterman, Regis & Kelly, Playboy interview, ... the whole shmear.

 

madmax- One could make a case that part of the "One World Order" has begun with the introduction of the Euro Dollar....

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - In another move to calm global financial markets rattled by the terror attacks on the U.S., the Federal Reserve and the European Central Bank agreed Thursday to a swap arrangement aimed at aiding the cash needs of European banks affected by the disaster.

Under the arrangement announced by the U.S. central bank, the ECB would be able to draw up to $50 billion, while the Federal Reserve Bank of New York will get an equivalent amount of deposits in euros, the ECB's sponsored currency.

"The ECB will make these dollar deposits available to national central banks of the Eurosystem, which will use them to help meet dollar liquidity needs of European banks, whose U.S. operations have been affected by the recent disturbances in the United States," the Fed said in a statement.


In the book Revelations, it talks about how the world will fall under one goverment, one currency etc.

 

gootan, im sure this isnt what you intended, but the way you have it written, you make it sound like God died. also, if he was humiliated and beaten and all that, wouldnt that *negate* the attribute of being the All-Powerful?

also, where in the bible does Jesus claim to be God?
the verse, "i am ascending to my Father, and your Father, to my God, and your God" seems proof enough to me that Jesus is distinctly separate from God, no?

 

jamma34-

Jesus came as a man in order to fulfill the law of God and to be the sacrifice for sin. He did this as a man.

In many ways He claimed to be “God with us.”

Guys, I don't even consider myself an expert on the Bible. There are so many other people and web-sites that devote themselves to answering questions like these. I don't mind finding answers for you, but some of these questions shouldn't have to wait for me to take a break from work (or the weekend) to be answered.

Ask and it shall be given unto you. Seek and you shall find. Knock and the door will be opened. The truth is out there, spend some time searching. It's really important. You could say it's a matter of life and death.

 

I think this thread should be re-titled:

Bible: Fact or Fiction



On the topic of "holy war" I've always believed that we were at war for our souls but not against Satan or some hidden enemy. Rather, I've always believed that the war we wage is with ourselves.

For me, the greatest battle yet to be won is the battle for control of of our own ego. This one won't be won on the battlefield but rather in our own minds. But, I'm just getting surreal and metaphysical here. You guys carry on with your debate.

 

Huh? 2 Sam. 24:1 says "And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah."

This verse says that God didn't just allow David to number Isreal, it says God moved (ie encouraged) David to number Isreal.

But it doesn't matter why/if the Amalekite lied. If there is a known lie presented as truth in the Bible doesn't that distort the whole inerrancy arguement?

I understand the concept but I don't really see how it relates to Jesus first telling the disiples he would be with them always and then saying he would not be with them always. Appearing for a bit after the resurrection does not equal always.

The problem is what do you take for "disproving the bible"? I am not saying the whole thing is false. All I am saying is there are erros in the bible. So seriously, what for you would disprove the bible? Would a single error/mistake make it or does it require something more grandiose?

 

Hi Dylan,

Can we agree that God has the ability to communicate in any way He wants to? If the message originates from God, can He allow the message to go through Satan to His intended target?

The truth presented is the statement the Amelkite said to David.
There are other instances of people lying in the bible.

Jesus is not limited to the physical world like us. He is also and primarily spiritual. If you want to get technical, John 1 says that Jesus is the Word, or the Bible. And the Bible is still with us.

I have always believed that if one part of the Bible is false,
then its credibility is ruined. Maybe you're right, as long as the message stays intact among the 66 books, thousands of years, 33+ authors(well, 1 author, 33+chroniclers) it's still amazing.

 

gootan... what do you think of the quran then which has been preserved in the original arabic that it was revealed in without a single word being changed even slightly?

 

I think I would ask former muslims on that subject, since I'm not an expert.
Quran God's Word?

or just



www.abrahamic-faith.com