In one of our recent games, one of the sportscasters (forgot who) was saying how Carlos Rogers was trying to absorb as much knowledge as he could from the Dream. He went to Hakeem and asked him if they could work out together over the summer. Hakeem's reply was "I won't be here over the summer, so you better learn all you can right now. I find this very depressing. I think it's okay that Hakeem is a shadow of his former self, and that he's slated to make a ton of money in his last year (the Rockets owe him that), but he at least needs to try to earn it. It's one thing to suck, but to suck and not even care is a different matter. I'm afraid that is where Hakeem stands at this point. I can understand not being the player you once were, but you could at least try to be a good influence to our younger guys. "I'm not going to be here over the summer". Here Carlos Rogers is trying to learn all he can from this legend, and this is the Dream's reply? I still am not in favor of ever trading Hakeem, but this ticked me off a little. Could you imagine Karl Malone, or even Scottie Pippen saying this? I remember Othella Harrington asking Malone the same question, and his reply was something to the effect of "You better be ready to go to work". I can just see the perplexed and disappointed look in Los' eyes when he heard that.
freak i can see where you're coming from, but i wouldn't come to any rash conclusions. you don't know what hakeem is doing this summer. maby he's visiting sick relatives in nigeria. maybe he's going on a vacation with his family that he's been planning for years. i am going to have a little faith in hakeem, and trust that he's not ditching carlos to play golf in the bahamas, but if you find information to the contrary, then i might change my feelings. thanks. but, i do see your point that carlos would be quite disappointed, let's hope he keeps his head up though. [This message has been edited by WHAM! (edited March 12, 2000).]
TheFreak, Maybe Rudy and CD didn't see the same fire in the eyes already last year and that is why the trade proposal went as far as it did. Mango
Actually the most disturbing thing after watching Hakeem this season is that he's not wearing a Raptors jersey. After the deal fell through and I said we'd regret it, did anyone, myself included, think it would be this much of a mistake? I don't want to lay down a bunch of insults on the Dream so as to appear like I am ungrateful to him -- the only reason we ever got to the status we did as a franchise is because of Dream and he's made me proud to be a Rocket fan for years -- but the best way to describe it, in my opinion, is that he's lost all desire to play this game.
"After the deal fell through and I said we'd regret it, did anyone, myself included, think it would be this much of a mistake?" I don't regret it, and I don't think it was a mistake. I desperately wanted Hakeem to retire at the end of last year, no matter what the cap implications were (it's all about preserving his legend to me, not how much 'precious' cap space we'd gain). As I said in the opening, I still don't want to trade Hakeem, but some things about his play and attitude have ticked me off a little. I guess I brought it on myself by starting this thread, but I just wanted to clarify my feelings.
TheFreak and Clutch, Maybe the essence of walking away from the game while he still was close to the top was something that Dream never grasped when he came to the United States. Other players stuck around a season too long, but very seldom have the elite players done that. Not the best comparison, but Magic's comeback was very disappointing for his fans. Mango
DaDakota's right... Not to play devil's advocate or anything, but you guys are kind of overreacting... (I guess it's devil's advocacy since I lambasted Dream last week ) but to be fair... he does go to Mecca every summer... I concede that does miss the context of theFreak's post since the summer will start for the Rockets at the end of May, and end in Sept/Oct. I assume that the Dream could find sometime (10-14 days) to help Carlos master his footwork during that time (preferably in the beginning of the summer so that Carlos could have a coordinated shot with that footwork)
And as we hold this same discussion, somewhere on the Eastern Coast, our furry primate friend, Patrick Ewing, has averaged some 21 points, 14 rebounds, while shooting over 60% in his last some outings...all on gimpy knees, legs.. At this point, I really don't let what Hakeem does bother me too much. I would rather stay in the median of both extremes (sinking down to insult him, or protect him and say he is the greatest) and let it go. Hey, if he wants to ruine his legend as a superstar and be remembered as a shell from his last year on the court, so be it. Nothing I can do about that. It is painful as hell to watch what was once the Dreamshake evolve into a fallaway jumper bouncing off the side of the backboard. I guess we just have to accept that he no longer has the desire nor the game that he once had.
"Hey, if he wants to ruine his legend as a superstar and be remembered as a shell from his last year on the court, so be it. Nothing I can do about that." Cabbage, I agree, that's what my feeling has been. I just think that if that's going to be the case, he could at least lead by example and show the young people what it takes to be a success in the way of preparation, namely in practice and in the off-season. The image of a young player, still having a lot to prove, wanting a veteran to show him the ropes in the offseason, and the veteran basically refusing to do so, is a little disconcerting, and goes against the image that a lot of us want to believe, that "the league isn't what it used to be", and "these young guys don't have the dedication to make the NBA what it once was", and "it's going to be sad day when the Class of '84 has finally left the league for good". I have to refer to my above reference of Karl Malone, after Othella asked him if he could train with him over the summer, and Malone insinuating that Othella didn't have what it takes to survive a summer with him, and wonder why so many of you trash Malone and put Hakeem on such a pedestal. So what if Hakeem's going to Mecca over the summer. That may have been okay when he could come back and still produce in the fall, but now he can't do that. For 15 million, and a lot of youngsters looking towards him for guidance, I think he needs to be working out over the summer, like a lot of guys have been doing for years, even after 6 rings (Pippen, Harper, Jordan). [This message has been edited by TheFreak (edited March 12, 2000).]
Do you think that is why Rudy switched into a rebuild mode this past summer instead of trying to patch things up for another playoff shot? There were several posters who lamented trading Pip and thought that there was still enough left for a title shot if the only trade would have been the Francis-Dickerson. Now with most of a season done, it is apparent that wouldn't have been true. Pip is just part of the woodwork in Portland and Dream doesn't have the fire. Mango
I actually think w/o dream we would have been a contender. It's also plausible that if the Dream trade had gone down earlier in the summer, that Pippen wouldn't have freaked out (we'd still have to deal w/ tantrums) Kevin Willis Charles Barkley Scottie Pippen Shandon Anderson Steve Francis plus: Doug Christie and a couple of first rounders... would we have been as far along as today? no... the team would have been boring also. it's a toss up as to the weight of two first rounders from last year and the one pick that we're getting this year. whether or not Stevie's development would have been hindered is a hard call w/ a) Kevin in the middle instead of Dream and b) Scottie's presence still around... the weird thing is that Steve actually brought it up last week about how he's had such a hard time b/c all of the vets are either gone or have no influence/words of wisdom (dream) hindsight is bs, so it's arguable as to whether or not the 'learn by being the man w/ no help' camp or the help that would have been given by Scottie and Charles would have been more influential. I'd tend to lead towards the latter... because Cuttino wouldn't have developed this quickly w/o Scottie and Charles.
I've got to say, when the trade was going to go down, I was in disbelief at how the Rockets could trade him after all he did. But, the way he's going out is sad, and I'd rather not watch it. He's just a shadow of his former self, he's barely trying... It's like he's just hanging around to collect his check. The Raptors deal, in hindsight, was a hell of a deal for the Rockets future. My only question is, if that deal had happened, and we had the 5th pick in the draft, who would we have picked?? Would we have still made the trade for Francis? There so many what-ifs... My main thing is I'd just rather not watch Hakeem go out like a punk. I know he's getting older and all that, but look at Karl Malone, Kevin Willis, even Ewing for crying out loud. All those guys are giving it up night in and night out... But, then again, none of those guys has what Hakeem has -- the jewelry. I guess if I'm Hakeem, and I'm on a team that's definitely going nowhere this year or next year, I might as well relax and enjoy my last years. I just wish he'd retired before it came to this.
No use talking about the "what-ifs" and "might-have beens". Let's talk about the now and the future... In that vein, I hope that CD and Rudy T. do all they can to buy Hakeem out so that this is his last season. I feel that if he plays next year, with the whole world knowing that it is his last season, he will be more of a disctraction than a help to this team. It's time for the Dream to retire and ride off into the sunset, all the while working on his Hall of Fame induction speech. He was the franchise, but not anymore. ------------------ Bring It!!
As I posted several times over the last couple of weeks, Hakeem will not be playing next season. No Way. Will not Happen. So Long Dream Man. IMHO
Freak, Dream has always put his religion first. He goes to Mecca in the summer and fasts and prays 4 times a day for Ramadon in February. This is nothing new so, why make something of it now. He did the same thing when he won back to back championships. Dream is not THE reason the Rockets aren't doing well right now.
All of you suck. Hakeem is playing as good as I expected he would after his injury of this year. He has shown some flashes of brilliance and has had some good games where I was impressed. He looks a lot better than monkey-boy Ewing any day , and would look even better if Rudy would play him more when he is in his groove. I bet as soon as Hakeem has a high scoring game this season, that at least half of you will get off this bandwagon and jump on the "Hakeem is back" bandwagon. It's funny (sad) what a losing season will do to some people.
by the way , I didn't mean any offense by the "you all suck" statement, It just kind of appeared as I was typing.
Hey popeye , so if Hakeem wont play next year does that mean the rockets have enough money to go after one of the big Free agents? [This message has been edited by Francis3 (edited March 13, 2000).]
