If you knew anything about the chronology of those conclusions, you might be a little more suspect. The EPA conclusions were written BEFORE their studies were done. In fact, the majority by a wide margin of the studies the EPA used concluded AGAINST ETS being a public health concern. The major study used by the government was based on a SURVEY of HOUSEWIVES who lived with a smoker, for crying out loud. NONE of the studies BOTHERED to study a bar/restaurant environment. But you're not ready for that debate, as you've indicated. So I'll only ask you this: please explain Western Europe rates of health effects vs American. They smoke MORE, STRONGER tobacco. Yet they have far less health related ailments. If this science is SO STRONG that smoking causes illnesses, WHY ISN'T IT is Western Europe? As Deckard says, the fact that IT IS different in undeniable. Could it be that your 'scientists' AREN'T spot on? If you can't get the science, then look at it intuitively. Some 3 pack a day smokers get diseases. True. Some 3 pack a day smokers don't. True. Someone exposed to ETS gets only the tiniest fraction of the exposure a smoker does. And they get it after its gone through TWO filters. One on the cigarette and my lungs. And they are only exposed for a fraction of the time a smoker is. The chance of disease (not minor discomfort as described by Jeff) from this exposure is simply not statistically significant.
You asked for the substance. I gave it to you. And somehow I knew you would doubt the credibility of its source. What other facts do you want? Who else do you want to hear it from? I don't think ETS is killing me. But I don't want to be exposed to it. I should be able to go eat, drink, play pool, go bowling, etc. without having to be exposed to it. And bartenders, wait staff, cooks, and everybody else in the restaurant industry should be able to enjoy their profession without having to worry about the many damages caused by ETS. It's only a matter of time before Houston becomes non-smoking. You're about to have to go outside the restaurant or bar when you want to smoke. And I don't think you're gonna like it too much. I'm not the biggest country music fan, but I know this one: "Here's a quarter - call someone who cares." -- droxford
To the smoker posters... In the ~18months that NYC has had the smoking ban, not much has really changed. In my experience people still smoke at bars/clubs and very rarely does anyone ever tell them to put it out... I bet it'll be the same in Houston so you guys don't have much to worry about.
And you can do that without outlawing smoking in restaurants and bars. But like you said you don't care so why are you even posting? The funny part is that I've read the EPA's studies. Read all the Congressional testimony. Read plenty of court filings and transcripts. Read plenty of books and Surgeon General reports and outside studies. All on the ETS topic. It was the subject for my master's thesis. So I find it a little silly that you think you can pull up a freaking google search and tell me that I must just not be up on the science of the subject, lol. You can have your quarter back.
HayesStreet I never said I didn't care about the ordinance - I said that I didn't care if Fatty was unhappy about having to leave a restaurant to smoke. I haven't read the EPA's studies. I've only briefly read their results/summaries. You may or may not be right about their testing methods. And I never claimed, because of my google search, that you weren't "up on the science of the subject." Fatty asked for info. I delivered what I could quickly find. My 'quarter' remark was a response to Fatty's original country music quip. -- droxford
Deckard, I have no idea how you might have the reserve to write something like this in response to these people, but I do laud it: HayesStreet - Your stubborn refusal to admit that smoking and prolonged exposure to smoke might harm someone kills me. I mean, Ha ha, it kills me. That, too. FFB - Have you ever stopped to consider the tax rate on those cigarettes that you so greedily consume?!?! To the both of you: I sincerely hope you enjoy all the smokes you have on the sidewalk while the rest of us are inside, breathing happily in the smoke-free air.
This is clearly a VERY emotional issue to some. It's not a hugely important issue to me. But again...there are ordinances based on concepts of public health that govern all sorts of business owners in cities across the country. How can you make a restaurant owner designate a smoking area, taking up tables and making the wait longer for the majority of the customers who aren't there smoking? We could go on and on like this. But again...the courts aren't going to give a damn about anyone's "right" to smoke being infringed by the government. Because frankly...you don't have an absolute RIGHT to smoke.
just like you don't have a right to drive without a seatbelt or the right to ride a motorcycle without a helmet it's the end of evolution as we know it
Shoot me an email at smgilbert@hotmail.com and I will add you to the mailing list. That goes for any of the rest of you lugs too! FYI....next gig is a week from Friday (8/27) at Christian's Tailgate, I-10 and Washington.
Very true. The only alternative is to play a place that has it's stage outdoors, like T-Bone Tom's or Maribelle's down in Kemah.
I agree with you - but I think here in the US that would make you more of a libertarian than a liberal.
nyrocket: I'm FULLY aware of the taxing structure on cigarettes, otherwise known as the "sin-tax". It basically charges us double the cost of cigarettes to smoke. It was done in the Clinton administration, and I think it is ridiculous and unfair, also. As I've said, for the past decade, lobbyists have held on to this like a monkey on a banana stuck in a bottle. It keeps getting worse for smokers. That's why I'm so emotional about this. Again, I'm trying to quit. One day I will succeed. But I will be damned if after I'm done, I start yelling... YELLING at all smokers to do same. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Enough is enough.
Exactly, enough is enough. We lazy non smokers have had enough and are going to send our fat lazy asses to the ballot box and vote to keep your nasty ass smoke out of our lungs. Have fun smoking outside sucker!!!
The fact that you argue, and are rude about it tells me that you are unhappy about your current situation. Bad marriage, perhaps?
This really isn't about me personally being able to smoke. I only smoke on the weekends when I drink, and I hardly ever go out anymore. What bothers me is a complete ban on smoking instead of figuring out a way to make everyone happy. And I do think there are some places that you should be able to smoke. Rocketman Tex, I just can't imagine Maribelle's in Kemah being smoke-free. It's a dive and needs to stay a dive. I just like the place the way it is.
