the position is obsolete. put dunleavy and darius miles on the same team and make don nelson their coach.
I feel that the Rox are trying to find the best option for this year. Maybe, we wont get a PG, and just use Lue. Yes, we'll hurt a bit. But we might be able to get a better PG next year. You never know. I'm still holding on to Daniels, Jones, and maybe Hudson. Fisher's ok. But not in the long run.
Billups beat up an old Gary Payton and an injured Derek Fisher. He also stunk it up during the Indiana and Nets series. Any number of Piston could have won MVP during that series. The fact still remains that point guards don't really equate in value to qb's in the NFL. Before Billups, there hasn't been a point guard to win the MVP in the NBA Finals since Isiah Thomas. That's nearly 15 years ago. In the NFL, you don't have to go far in Super Bowl history to see a QB be the MVP for the Super Bowl.
In fact, there hasn't been a point guard to win the MVP of the league since Magic. So it's been about 16 years since a point guard has been NBA MVP. A QB is virtually named MVP every other year in the NFL.
You guys are branching out into "GREAT MVPs" not just point guards. The reason that Magic won was because he was a great player, period. Not because he was a "PG." So, he's a bad example. Remember, he could play PG, SG, SF, and center! So, "PG" wasn't the point (pun not intended). I think what some are saying is that the PG position needs a competent floor leader. Not that they have to score a lot, but just generally run the offense. That's all.
GATER, (and Will) seem to think that JVG and staff might try something like that.... if we can't get a good PG from free-agency. Personally, I've never seen the guy play. But GATER and Will might have.
Point guards in the NBA are the "quarterbacks" of the team. They set up plays, they set up players, they initiate the action. In the NFL they do same things; however, they are more likely to be the "star" because of the importance of passing skills. I am not saying that the PG in the NBA has to be the "star," but they are important in the same way a NFL QB is important. I don't believe the Rockets need an All Star PG, I think they need a good player who can perform the "basics" of the role. Francis was a "star" but IMO never a very good PG in the "classic" sense of the position.
I see where you are going with the argument. But to be honest, I feel "star" players are the ones that make the offense go, not point guards. You get the ball into your "go-to" players and let them "set up" other players and "initiate" opportunities for the team offense. McGrady and Yao are the quarterbacks for this team. Their the ones that are going to open up opportunities for their teammates. McGrady is going to be bring the ball up the court a lot. He's gonna set up teammates. He's going to average more than 5 apg. He and Yao are our quarterbacks. All we need from a point is a guy who can shoot, play some D, and not turn the ball over. That's all I'm saying.
DaMan, I certainly agree that I wouldn't want the PG dominating th e ball. We may disagree on the role of the PG, but I think we are on the same track in terms of outcomes. Ming may kick out to the open man, but he needs someone to hit him as soon as he gains position. Last year, he often got the pass after he lost position, result, an awkward shot. Also, someone has to set up the play and I wouldn't what to waste TMac on that responsiblity. I want the PG setting TMac up for the shot. PS, since the THE TRADE, the board is a different place, for some reason we can now talk to each other in a civil manner. I like it.
Hmmm, I thought those guys were the "stars." If all we needed was anybody to bring the ball up we could use Mike Wilks. This is why we are trying to get PGs with the skills that go with that position. Guys like Daniels, Snow, Jones, and Hudson. PG skills are an integral part of the offense. It's just been too long since the Rockets have had such a player (Lucas). One that could see the floor and get other involved based on his OWN vision and skill. This doesn't mean that they can't shoot. We can still use them for that. But what I'm focusing on is the value of the PG skills. That player would run the offense and make sure that everyone was in the right place for the plays. Simply giving the ball to your best player(s) and have them go one-on-one for the double-team is not what I call being the quarterback. That's being your "star" or "go-to player." That's having them use their extra ordinary skills to draw double teams. That's completely different than running the team as a PG; and skills involved. Now, this had nothing to do with pure shooting skills; which seems is mostly all you want out of a PG; for the Rox. That's another thing. And it doesn't mean I don't great shooting skill. I do. But the other skills of passing and distribution the PG is what I'm talking about here. This is why my ultimate PG for the future is Kirk Hinrich. He's strong in PG skills, shooting skills, defensive skills. And he's a kid. Want a "quarterback?" That's your quarterback. And he wouldn't even be the "star" of this team.
Having a prototypical point guard is fine and dandy? But that's not what this team really needs. How many prototypical point guards are there in this league? Not many. In most cases, a quarterback is what makes an offense go. Comparing point guards in terms of importance with an NFL quarterback is not accurate. What makes an offense effective in the NBA is your "star" player? Being able to score in crunch time when opposing defensive are trying to lock you down. Yao and McGrady are our "quarterbacks" in terms on creating offense for the team, whether they are taking the shots or creating shots for their teammates (i.e. tight ends/wide receivers). Damon Jones or Eric Snow is not going to make or break most crunch time possessions. That's going to be McGrady's job more times than not. I'm not saying we should have some warm body bring the ball up. I'm saying we should have somebody that can D it up, shoot from the outside, and not turn the ball over. So let's go over our ponit guard requirements in more detail. We need a guy who can get the ball up court in a timely manner without turning the ball over. When I talk about a guard in terms of initiating the offense, what I'm really talking about is a guy who can get the ball in the hands of Yao and McGrady without screwing up. Sounds a little easier than it actually is. I want a guy who can D it up and not be a mismatch down low (i.e. Tyronn Lue). And most importantly, I want a guy who can stroke it from the outside. Hitting the perimeter shots is going to be so important with Yao and McGrady on this team. And that is the number one reason I don't want Eric Snow on this team (other than the fact that he chokes a lot in the playoffs). That's why the Lakers struggled a lot offensively during the this year's playoffs. Everyone including the Rockets collapsed when Kobe and Shaq got into the lane. When Payton, Malone, George, Fox, etc were in the game, they couldn't make the teams respect the perimeter game. That's why Phil abandoned his veterans and went with Fisher, Walton, and Rush a lot in crunch time. He sacrificed big time D with Walton and Rush, but it was worth it for the sake of the offene. When they were winning championships, they had Fox, Fisher, and Horry in the game hitting open shots and playing solid D. That's the kind of complement we need for Yao and McGrady. You don't need a prototypical point guard to win big. And you definately don't need a great point guard to win big. Point guards rarely lead teams to championships. Magic and Isiah. That's it. Those were the only two point guards, who were the best player on their team, to win a championship in the modern era.
If there is one thing that I can't stand is the "Point guards rarely lead teams to championships." That should never be used as an argument for for NOT getting the best point guard you can. If anything, I've head it used when you are trying to build a TEAM around a PG. But we are not. Not sure how that even fits in what we are talking about? Who said anything about our PG leading us to a championship? By the way, when I say, "prototypical point guard." That does not mean that I WANT that guy to shoot bad, or like that comes with the package (good distributor but bad shooter). What I'm saying is that that player can bring things to this team that you can't see in the stats. It's a flow of the offensive that I'm after. We're not going to run the same offense that Phil did. So, the pick-and-roll will be a key point to our plays. Think about that. Do I want him to hit his open shots. Sure, let not overlook the other skills either. My point? I want a PG that's strong in passing and shooting. Not just one. Well, who do you want? Barry's gone. Not much to choose....Fish? How long? Four year contract?
My argument is based on solid's original statement that "point guards are as important in the NBA as QB's are in the NFL." That's why I keep hammering that point home. You usually need good quarterback play to win big, but you don't necessarily need good point guard play to win big (i'm starting to sound like JVG). Of course we should always try to get the best point guard we can to fit our team dynamics. When you have two star players like Yao and McGrady, you have the luxury of looking for a point guard with more specialized skills.
Yeah, put aside the "quarterback" thing. That's soild's post. I'm getting off topic. Ah yes....interesting point above... True. But one of the things I wonder about is how good McGrady/Yao will be. From the look of things. Yao plays both ends of the court better than McGrady, but needs to improve in offense and rebounding. McGrady is a monster on offense, but need to improve on defense. He needs to be a defensive player if I'm to put him in the same category as Hakeem or Shaq (dominant on both ends). They're not at that level yet. Our team doesn't have the same power as a Shaq or Hakeem led team (at least individually). So, I don't think our McGrady/Yao team is yet a dominant two-man attack until the defense of McGrady increase and Yao's offense/rebounding increase. Thus, I really want to maximize each position, and not cut any corners. Just incase. We aren't Shaq/Kobe yet. Or even Hakeem/Drelxer. Those teams could cut corners with specialist. I don't think we're at that level yet. Once that happens, then, yes, we can start "specializing" with certain positions. For now I really interested in maximizing the PG position. Not scrimping with a specialist. Not yet anyways. I really would like to find a mid-twenty shooting/passing PG, that could be our starter for the next 4-6 years. One that would grow w/the team. With McGrady/Yao. That would be the most desirable situation.
so is McGrady our quarterback???? and Yao our running back and back-up QB the point guard with need for our offense is the football equivalent of the place kicker holder (that also double as a shutdown corner)
Well let me put your concerns about McGrady's defense to rest. He will be on the NBA All Defense team before his tenure with the Rockets is done. McGrady will have a positive impact on the defensive end. There is not a doubt in my mind. He was a good defender in Toronto. In Orlando, he worked too hard on the offensive end to really bring it defensively every night. Now that he has a 2nd star on his team, he'll be able to work it on the defensive end like Kobe. Trust me, McGrady is already a good defender. He's going to be a great defender before it is all said and done. He can be what Scottie Pippen in his prime was on the defensive end. That's who all the scouts compared him to when he came out of high school. A freakish athlete. Very long arms. Great lateral quickness. Explosive jumping ability. He stays in front his man very well. He's got good size in the post to defend. And he's a very good weakside shot blocker for a 2-guard/small forward. With Jeff Van Gundy and a talented supporting cast, McGrady will be able to bring it defensively every night like he rarely could in Orlando. Just watch.
