I am in favor of school vouchers. Not only will they allow kids to escape from horrible schools, it will force the bad schools to get better or die. Anyone else in favor of vouchers for other reasons? Anyone opposed? ------------------ Liberals favor using artificial means to alter the normal to a state which facilitates and justifies how irresponsible they want to be
School vouchers allow parents to decide where they want their children to go to school. This includes public and private schools. Basically, the taxes that are paid for education are put into the hands of parents who can choose to give the money to the public schools, as happens now, or to a private school. ------------------ Liberals favor using artificial means to alter the normal to a state which facilitates and justifies how irresponsible they want to be
of course that has its advantages like you said, but of course its downsides. if there was only one good school in the area, that school would be wayyyy overcrowded. ------------------
Been Done ------------------ I have just realized that the stakes are myself I have no other ransom money, nothing to break or barter but my life my spirit measured out, in bits, spread over the roulette table, I recoup what I can nothing else to shove under the nose of the maître de jeu nothing to thrust out the window, no white flag this flesh all I have to offer, to make the play with this immediate head, what it comes up with, my move as we slither over this go board, stepping always (we hope) between the lines [This message has been edited by rimbaud (edited June 14, 2001).]
De Facto Segregation Privated schools can turn down students for any reason they see fit [in their charters yadda yadda yadda] I think the idea that private schools are so great is over rated. Sure they have better test scores etc. . . .cause guess what EVERYONE THERE IS PAYING TO BE THERE These are the top of the students ANYWAY They have better facilities. They have less bureacracy Once the gov get involved with them . . maybe put in a few regulations .. .they will taper off. If i got only superstars that are motivated on my team . . . do you think we could beat the local pick up team where they forced two of their players to play who did not want to? That is the same difference between Private Schools vs Public Schools this is lazy ass government Rocket River 'let someone else do it' - government ------------------
I have no problem with vouchers if the following criteria are met: 1. Private schools can't choose who they take. They must take certain students from certain areas. For example, if 20 students from Katy and 20 students from Yates want to go to a private school with government money, then they must at least take 10 from each. It cannot be discriminatory, it wouldn't do any good. 2. This one actually makes the first one useless. School districts like Katy shouldn't have students that receive vouchers, those districts are already well funded. 3. The students that don't go to private schools aren't ignored. That's my greatest fear with vouchers. I don't want someone who decides to stay at a public school to be left behind in anyway. I really think vouchers will do just that. 4. The government can't decide which private schools are eligible, it should be all or not. That way, students have the choice of secular and religious private schools and it doesn't look like the government is promoting religion in anyway. Unfortunately, I think 1 and 4 are impossible because I think the government would have a hard time forcing private schools to accept just anyone. They should look into ways of fixing public schools. I like the idea of having the schools be held up to a certain standard through "report cards", but I think the big question is the implementation of that. I don't think throwing them money and then coming back a year later to check progress is the right way to go. The government needs to give incentive for young teachers to teach in these poor school districts. They need to have a chance to set up computer classes and the like so that the students have comparable facilities. They also need to make sure that the way they check the progress accounts for possible corruption and prejudice. In my opinion, there's really not a more important issue out there. ------------------ www.swirve.com "Pre-born, you're fine, pre-school, you're f*****."-George Carlin
The biggest problem with vouchers is that they do not do what they were intended to do which is open up private education to poor families and their children. Most vouchers have been recommended at around $1500 per year. That may get some middle class kids in, but it won't get poor kids in. Most private schools cost more than that per year and some are more per semester. In addition, private schools require purchasing of school books, many times owning a computer and sometimes buying a uniform. These all fall outside the scope of tuition. Finally, there are serious transportation issues. Most poor people don't live down the street from a good private school. That means they have to get their kids to and from the place, which, if they don't own a car, is impossible considering most private schools don't provide bus service. I went to private schools from K through 12 and it was VERY expensive for my parents. Tuition at my high school today is $800 per semester. In addition, students are not provided lunches, are required to wear school-approved clothing, must purchase all their books, are recommended to own a computer and must have a long list of school supplies including scientific calculators. They also do NOT provide transportation to and from school and students must provide their own uniforms for sports, band or any other extra-cirricular activity. For that school alone, and it is no St. Thomas or Kinkaid, you are looking at close to $3000 per semester. If you can barely afford to put food on your table, half the tuition to a private school may as well be half the cost of a mansion in River Oaks. It won't fix the problem. ------------------ Things do not change; we change. - Henry David Thoreau
Excellent insight. I had not even scratched the surface of this issue. It is incredibly one sided. Rocket River ------------------
The second part of the equation is questionable. For the bad schools to feel a need to get better, they'd have to be losing all their students. But unless there are new schools available to take those kids, there will still be plenty of kids who have to go to the bad schools because those are the only slots available. The assumption is that private schools would make up the slack (and we've got to assume that the voucher would pay the entire tuition for private school, another questionable assertion), but we don't know if that is true or not. The private schools I know that exist now operate at full capacity. There are already waiting lists to get in. So new private school construction would be necessary. But there is no guarantee that the new private schools would 1. build enough classroom space to make it where bad schools could be done away with, 2. would actually be good at educating kids, 3. Be convenient enough for parents to take their kids to that school (and support the parents' beliefs. Where I grew up, there was only one private school beyond the elementary level. It was a Cathlic School. I wouldn't send my Baptist kids to a Cathlic school). It is a dubious claim that new private schools would be springing up all over to take these kids, either. There are a lot of sunk costs involved in building a school and setting it up for business. Such schools would be expected to be unprofitable for years. So while demand might increase for private schools with vouchers, the cost and profit structure of new private schools might keep them from being built (and there is no guarantee that a private school will be any good or successful. Some parents might be skeptical of a new private school with no track record, making it even harder to convince potential private school owners to build. Just because more people could go to the school doesn't mean that they will). Another problem I see is that the schools I know are controlled by the both the state (that sets ciricula) and the local school board. The things that make a school bad or good might be entirely within the school boards' discretion (which teachers to assign to which schools, what funding to provide for infrastructure at older schools, etc). Things like class size aren't determined at the individual school level. A lack of quality teachers isn't caused by the school just not hiring enough good teachers. The schools themselves don't hire teachers. And some districts go begging for teachers and still can't get all that they want. I believe there needs to be a new approach to public schools, but I don't see vouchers as the answer. Maybe school choice can be an element of a bigger plan in the future. But alone, I don't think it solves anything. ------------------ Houston Sports Board Film Dallas.com AntiBud.com
jeff.. true but from my experience most of those are needed in public as well.. I know there is almost no way possible I could get by in my classes without a calculator and computer. if i didnt' have an expensive calculator and good computer i seriously would probably have to drop from advanced classes to onlevel and might still have a problem.. most of our stuff is required to be typed and with the amount of math homework we havea calculator is no longer a luxry but a n ecessity.......... but i only know about my district ------------------ Shane "Save Our Rockets" "Life without basketball in Houston........without an arena that is what it will be"
few more things.... dont have to buy books at least but public schools these days are still vety very expensive.. . at my school the dance team is required to purchase their own uniforms which is hundreds of dollars maybe thousands, band is required to purchase instruments and other supplies, etc I know it wotn fix the problem but i think at least if a family has a kid that they want to go to a private school they should be given back part or all of their school tax to be used at the private school ------------------ Shane "Save Our Rockets" "Life without basketball in Houston........without an arena that is what it will be"
What if I don't have any kids at all? Shouldn't I then get my school tax money back? ------------------ Houston Sports Board Film Dallas.com AntiBud.com
mrpaige.. maybe so i dunno.. all i know is something needs to be done to get kids in good schools.. as a high school student i know there are way too many bad teachers and none ever get fired it seems. [This message has been edited by Rocket Fan (edited June 14, 2001).]
mrpaige makes great points as always. I don't know about you guys, but at my school, 3 weeks of my Biology I class was dedicated to learning how to win debates with evolutionists. We studied debate IN BIOLOGY! The point that not all private schools are necessarily BETTER schools than public one's is an important one to make AND that they face little or no regulation to determine the needs of students. Some of that can be determined from college requirements, but not all. ------------------ Things do not change; we change. - Henry David Thoreau
jeff.. debate in biology lol is that a good or bad thing? luckily cyfair isd is a pretty good district but of course i have problems with quite a few things we do.. still dont agree with getting rid of valedictorian but oh well luckily my ap history class, and my advanced classes are all pretty good and challenging.. nothing worse than a class that you aren't challenged in.. ..the only reason i would consider private school is because sometiems the kids seemt o care a little more since that much money is beijng put into it ------------------ Shane "Save Our Rockets" "Life without basketball in Houston........without an arena that is what it will be" [This message has been edited by Rocket Fan (edited June 14, 2001).]
or maybe the parents seem to care more *grin* How did that get rid of the valedictorian? If you the best in ya class. . . you just the best in your class. It doesn't make sense What is the OFFICIAL reason Why? Rocket River just curious ------------------
Rocket River.. you are still ranked first.. they just don't do the valedictorian speech and the 2nd ranked person (forgot exactly how to spell it lol) giving the prayer or whatever they generally give. they don't officially call anyone valedictorian or basically give them any credit at all.. I think their reasoning behind it was something about not wanting to make people feel bad.. and not wanting competition or something. i think they should have left it alone though. competition is a good thing as far as i'm concerned.. and i'm ranked pretty high along with some of my other friends including who will probably end up ranked 1st and it woudl be nice if we at least got some recognition. especially the top 2 or 3. they do introduce the people who are magna c*m laude or whatever first at least but that is 30 or so people. also they i think wanted people to be involved in extracuricular activites more so downgraded the importance of valedictoirnan.. basically the way they figure gpa if you are in any sports or band etc.. that lowers your grade point average since it isn't an advanced class.. Shane "Save Our Rockets" "Life without basketball in Houston........without an arena that is what it will be" [This message has been edited by Rocket Fan (edited June 14, 2001).] [This message has been edited by Rocket Fan (edited June 14, 2001).]
