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Salaries

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by jdmb82, May 21, 2007.

  1. jdmb82

    jdmb82 Member

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    I have often thought about the way in which teams seemingly squander their entire salary cap on one or two individuals (such is almost the case with the Houston Rockets), and thus there is not enough money remaining remaining to surround the two high rent players with a quality supporting cast.

    It would really be nice to see an NBA star (for example, Tracy Mcgrady) come out and admit that their bloated salary hurts their team more so than that individual's play helps the team, and thus they'd be willing to play for significantly less money by way of contract re-negotiations or what-not, for the sake of the love of the game and for the sake of winning and becoming great.

    Not to pick on them, but seriously, Tracy Mcgady makes something to the effect of $16 million per season and Yao Ming makes slightly less than that. Would their lifestyles change that dramatically if they only made 2 or 3 million a year?

    I seem to recall Manu Ginobilli several years ago as he was campaigning for a big contract, that he wanted it not necessarily because he wanted the money, but so he would be taken seriously. Is this the way of it? Is the bottom line the dollar sign? Has it supplanted the cross as a religious icon? When you read about the death of someone famous in the newspaper often times there is a mention of what that individual was worth, in terms of monetary assets. Is this the way of it? Is a professional athlete more valuable than a school teacher? A humanitarian? A drug counselor? A garbage man? Members of the peace corps or police officers?

    It seems like a perpetually self-defeating system that is bent on an eventual implosion. I just had to get these feelings out. Thanks for reading.
     
  2. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    I don't see it as a problem. Almost every team in the league has a similar issue with 2 guys taking up most of the cap-space. It doesn't put Houston in a competitive disadvantage if all of their opponents do the same thing. In fact, I don't like to see players work for less than their market rate, because it unbalances the league (fortunately, it doesn't happen too often).

    And, I seriously doubt that McGrady's price-tag hurts the team more than his talent can help. If that were the case, teams would eventually wise up and not sign any stars and see if they can win that way. The current Bobcats are in that situation. The pre-McGrady/Hill Magic were that way for one season as well and were probably as successful as a team without stars can ever hope to be. The stars earn their keep and then some.
     
  3. c1utchfan925

    c1utchfan925 Member

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    i think salaries are what gives nba stars their status. maybe they feel they need to have big salaries to increase their reputations or maybe they just want to have more money. if you were blessed with a gift like mcgrady or yao have wouldn't you like to make money off of it? sports all comes down to egos, whether you like it or now people play to win and because they're professional athletes they want to be paid like such. we, the fans, use sports as a form of entertainment so by cheering on our home team we gain a sense of let's say happiness. when they win we win right? the players want to win as well, but i think the main motive outside of winning the championship and trying to make a name for themselves in the history books, is money. money is a great motivator and asking these athletes to take on lesser salaries is possible but at the same time we respect their talent and therefore pay accordingly. i mean don't get me wrong i'm all for asking the players to take salary cuts in order for us to sign better players to improve this team but you can't rework a contract. players past their prime or players who are nearly past them tend to have different goals. i remember barkley as one of those vets who were past their prime but he still came over and played his heart out. we had a great team just badluck. then you have players like R.lewis and V.carter who are playing out of their minds just to make money. i see sports as a risky career because at any given moment you can injure yourself never play again thus ending your career. so why not make the most of it and live it up as long as you can before you lose your value and ultimately lose your goals?
     
  4. GATER

    GATER Member

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    No offense but you are missing a HUGE portion of facts.

    The Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) contains all of the rules regarding the structure (minimums as well as maximums) and application of the salary structure for NBA players. It is a legal document which is signed by the owners of the 30 NBA teams and repesentaives of NBAPA. The NBA Players Association in no way, shape or form wants to lessen the amount of money it obtains for its players.

    The is an extremely slippery slope which has a very high potential to backfire on ALL of the players the NBAPA represents. It is the flipside of continously escalating salaries the owners' once experienced.

    Although I don't agree with all of the rules, it IMHO avoids the chaos which would result with players arbitrarily giving the money back. The reason they have a union in the first place is to protect themselves.
     
  5. Cosmonaut

    Cosmonaut Member

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    big sallaries do cripple teams, only by the end of their careers when they havent won a title do they realise money isnt everything and sign for the vets minimum.
    Vince Carter right now wants the biggest contract he can get, he is asking for a contact extension of 60 million over 3 years. Personally to me that tells me he is just in it for the money and not a championship, the guy could sign for half that amount and put the Nets in a much better situation cap wise to sign other players. Shaq is also the same he got his 40 million or something contract extension over 2 years, Shaq is not even worth that anymore, I would pay that in his prime 100% but now that he has won his titles he just wants his pay days more. But in the end many players sign contracts that cripple there own team cap wise which means they are not able to sign more talent for a championship run. I'll respect any super star for the rest of my life if they sign a contract for 8-9 million a year
     
  6. wizkid83

    wizkid83 Member

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    Bah, what's hurting the teams is the salary cap and lux tax from the new CBA. Bring back the old days where a player can get $15 MM in peace without the stigma of "max salary".

    NBA makes a ton of money off of its players, and I would say 95% of the profit (i.e. money earned after paying off every non-player NBA employee) should go to the players.
     
  7. ccjj

    ccjj Member

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    This is America. :D
     
  8. GATER

    GATER Member

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    This is unbelievably ridiculous. There isn't a business on this planet that would function under those kind of financial rules. So you want someone to invest 250m in an NBA team...and then walk off with $50k/year?

    Get a clue...the players' split under the current is CBA is 48% of ALL BRI...basketball related income. That's more than fair considering a player can suffer a career ending injury in the first game of his new contract and receive every penny of the salary. Or do I need to remind you that it was only two summers ago the Rockets stopped paying for Matt Maloney's beach house?
     
  9. wizkid83

    wizkid83 Member

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    You're right, the 95% was just a really big number without any thought. However, i believe this artificial cap on salary is what makes it seem that players over paid. Relative to the revenue that NBA generates as an entertainment, they are being paid their market price, and some players below it (though admittedly, a lot more above it). However

    But it's also something the players union agree to (though I beiieve next year's CBA is gonna get interesting, I don't know if there's going to be a strike or another lock out, but I think it's going to be interesting) so they'll have to live with it.


    Edit: http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/32/biz_06nba_NBA-Team-Valuations_land.html

    Actually, looking more on that site, I see most Teams generating ~ $140MM, with non player expenses (I'm taking revenue - player expence - operating income) at rought ~$50 MM, operating income (pre tax) ~$20MM and players expences ~$70MM. So right now the players are getting about 78% of the non operating expense revenue. Most Franchises look to be around ~$400MM each, so the rate of return is arond 5%, so I would conced that the current economic model has some balance to it.

    However, you will still have to add in the strong appreciation of the Franchise overtime. I think a quote I've seeing that I think represent the NBA business best is (paraphrasing) "owners of NBA team that complain about operating income margins is like like someone holding a hot stock and complaining about dividends".
     
    #9 wizkid83, May 21, 2007
    Last edited: May 21, 2007
  10. Riz

    Riz Member

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    I know not mamy teams will take Juwon but Rockets need to find a way to get lose him. This WILL make us more flexible.
     
  11. GATER

    GATER Member

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    No. No. NO. And NO!!!

    For the 100th time...as long as the Rockets have 2 max players in TMac and Yao and need to populate a roster with 13 other players, they will easily be over the salary cap. Trading Juwan away still means you have to take back ~75% of his next years' salary. You save nothing of significance. If you waive him or buy him out, the buyout value is amortized against the cap.

    It's going to be a looooooonnnng summer. :(
     
  12. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Unless we get a contract that is expiring or like Sura's is....

    DD
     
  13. GATER

    GATER Member

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    DaDa -
    I'm really, really disappointed in you. Apart from the fact I doubt you'll find a contract that is +/- 25% of Juwan and is one year shorter than Juwan's two remaining years...let's look at what is committed....

    2008-09

    McGrady = 21.1m
    Yao = 14.5m
    Battier = 6.4m

    That's $42.0m in just 3 players. That doesn't count this years' MLE, next years' MLE, this years' 1st round pick, next years' first round pick, or keeping Snyder, Head, VSpan or Hayes.

    Seriously...I've posted the fact that the Rocket will never have cap space while TMac and Yao are on the roster enough times that I thought you had learned it by now. Please re-new my faith in you. :D
     
  14. HI Mana

    HI Mana Member

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    Of course, I'm sure that most people would only be happy seeing players take paycuts if they were willing to do it for the Rockets; when Kevin Garnett takes the MLE in 2008 to play for the Lakers, Mavericks or Spurs, or Chauncey Billups takes a major paycut to run with LeBron in Cleveland, I doubt many forum-goers will be ecstatic about a player playing for less than his market worth.

    In addition, every player has a responsibility to get as much money as possible every contract they sign within reason; there's a reason there's a players union (in order for the owners to get away with monopolistic business practices, but I digress); when a star player takes less than he's worth, it has an effect on the rest of the players in the league. It depreciates the Mid-Level Exception, and even if 1 or 2 million doesn't make much of a difference for the top level earners, don't you think it will make a difference for guys like Chuck Hayes, who will be compensated in the low end of the pay scale? Crossing sports, how about Tom Brady resiging for less, then seeing the Patriots sit on the money he gave up? I would expect that if stars in the NBA took smaller contracts, the only people who would win would be the owners; fans would probably see a decreased effort on the court and that money meant to improve the team would probably go towards improving the owner's sky box.

    Btw, GATER, you have to be one of my favorite posters here; CBA ignorance is definitely in the top two of "things that really, really annoy me", with #1 being Drew Gooden's duck tail. Of course as I say this, my post will be full of CBA errors...ah well.

    GATER, you have to be one of my favorite posters;
     
  15. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    :D

    Just poking fun..........

    I agree with you fo sure, because even as Juwan comes off the books, raises for Tmac and Yao and Battier etc...eat up a good portion of that.

    And by then V-Span will be an 8 million a year player...easy.

    ;)

    DD
     
  16. meh

    meh Member

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    The NBA cap pretty much boils down to this if you want to win: get playe Ro who play at a higher level than their salary would indicate. You can't build a championship team based on players earning their salary. You do so by paying them less than they're worth.

    This can happen in many different ways. The Rockets, had they managed their cap better, could've accomplished this during Yao's early years. For 4 years, he was on a rookie contract playing for relative peanuts. Had the Rockets managed to clear enough dead-weights for a significant signing + T-Mac trade, we'd have 3 stars right now. But they didn't. Those dead-weights came off at the same time Yao got his big paycheck in terms of his second contract.

    I don't expect any "wow" signings over the offseason. If we're getting any significant offseason acquistions, it's going to be from a surprise source. Perhaps Adelman will turn V-Span into a spark off the bench, or get some no-namer to turn into a solid player like the Suns did with their finds.
     
  17. BroadwayBelm

    BroadwayBelm Member

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    If I was makin 20 mil a year, I would keep makin 20 mil a year until I signed that 25 mil a year contract.
     
  18. hooroo

    hooroo Member

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    Juwan is untradeable if the requirement is to turn his salary into a solid starting player. However there is one flawed player that could potentially be a starter on the rockets that the Rocks could trade for with reduced risk.

    Raef LaFrentz & Portland's four 2nd round draft picks. Portland give up those assets for Juwan, Sura (waivable for 1M), Lucas (waivable for 500k). Such a deal would add c.320k to the Rockets 60M payroll with six roster places open. That's where those 2nd round picks come in handy.

    Blazers save c3.8M this season, then 5.4M the next. With those four 2nd rounders Rockets could perhaps trade up in the first round or draft any combination of Morris Almond, Sean Williams, Glen Davis, Brad Newley, Herbet Hill, Petteri Koponen. All very interesting names, all possibly in the 2nd round.

    LaFrentz has had injury concerns but for the past 3 season's he's been in full health. Portland's frontcourt was too deep to allow him anything but garbage time. Raef's 3P shooting, size, and shotblocking is everything the Rocks need next to Yao.

    Provided the LT goes up by at least 2M which it has for the past several years, the 5 rookies should leave enough room for the Rockets, to use most of the MLE to improve the PG postion.

    (PG/MLE) Rafer Spanoulis
    McGrady Head Snyder
    Battier (26th pick) (37th pick)
    LaFrentz (Hayes) (42nd pick)
    Yao (52nd pick) (53rd pick)
     
  19. Williamson

    Williamson JOSH CHRISTOPHER ONLY FAN

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    There are no contract re-negotiations in the NBA.
     
  20. rpr52121

    rpr52121 Sober Fan
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    Your right that it works when a player is young. It also works you correctly use draft picks to get key pieces to the team that contribute for cheap. this is what we haven't been doing. Trying to win now has been seen as such a big thing, and JVG hates young players that over the last 4 years we have not picked up young players to groom. That is how you do it with so much cap space taken by 4 players (Mac, Yao, Shane, JHow). You almost always see players leave championship teams getting more money because they were drafted or discovered by the team they won with.

    On a side note, considering how much those 4 are making and that they are likely not gonna be moved, I'll like to see Adelman challenge them and push them, esp Shane & JHow. Shane's role became so small this year, he can do more but probably needs the push. I wish JHow could play with some fire, and maybe take 4000 jumpers a day this summer so he can actually hit the 15 footer consistently, but that would make sense and actually help the Rockets win.
     

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