Originally posted by RocketsPimp What's wrong with scoring a lot of points? There's only one ball. If a guy's strength is scoring, and he doesn't touch the ball, then he really doesn't help the team. Why not? I'm sure you were ready to give Hakeem more than Jackson's contract and he's missed quite a few games the past few years. Actually I didn't care if Dream stayed or not because he was old and slow. I don't see the comparison to Maloney at all. Maloney played a position that is easy to fill. Don't you remember all of the years we went searching for a PG? Signing the likes of Brent Price and Sedalle Threat...it took Steve Francis to fill that role... I guess Jackson's contract might become tradable, but I don't like the idea of signing guys to long contracts just because we are desperate. Jackson is a scorer that played only 55 games last year and grabbed rebounds for a team that couldn't hit a shot to save their lives... The only thing that he offers that might be attractive is his rebounding, which isn't even the most important thing a center should be able to do. Jackson is a PF that can play C, we need a C that can play C...
Just to back up the points being made about Jackson's (and the Warriors') rebounding: By far, the Warriors missed more field goal attempts than any team in the league -- more than 50 per game. The Warriors were 1st in the league not only in total offensive rebounds (by nearly 3 per game) but in the percentage of offensive rebounds they got. The Warriors, however, were also last in the NBA in the percentage of defensive rebounds they grabbed. Marc Jackson is an example of this discrepancy, as one of five Warriors in the NBA's top 40 in offensive rebounds/game, but further down the list in defensive rebounds (averaging only 5.0 per game ... only a half-rebound better than Steve Francis, and 1 rebound better than Maurice Taylor).
That pretty much says it all. We are extremely fortunate as fans to have such a talented and dedicated front office as well as a great owner who is as willing to do whatever it takes to bring a winner to this city as he is big hearted and charitable. Hats off to the Rockets for their success in accomplishing a difficult rebuilding effort in a very short period of time. Regardless of whether we make the playoffs or not this year, I'm very impressed with their ability to turn negatives into positives for the sake of us fans. I'm relieved to see us receive the DPE and excited to see us offer a contract to Mark Jackson. Jackson would fill a gaping need for us as a versatile 4/5 (given the very unfortunate injury Mo Taylor suffered). Get well soon MO!!! If we can resign Moochie Norris, it will have been a tremendously successful offseason IMO. Nice links Matador (especially Article 4). Thanks!
BGM: We have butted heads several times, but I will give you credit. You usually make good arguments and strong cases. However, if you are really serious about wanting to sign the Pigman when Jackson is available then you are telling me and everyone else here on this BBS that you don't think the Rockets will be a playoff team. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see how having Pig Miller and a one-dimensional shot blocker like an Ervin Johnson would make us better than having a low post scorer and decent rebounder in Marc Jackson. I just don't follow that logic.
What's the difference between Marc Jackson and Pig Miller? Marc Jackson can shoot and is getting paid more money. We need Marc Jackson for this season, I concede this. When Mo comes back, we do not need a 5th scorer. I don't think he's that much of a rebounder either. As swopa has mentioned, he only averaged 1 more defensive board than Mo Taylor. I think 98% of the board thinks Mo sucks at rebounding, yet Marc Jackson is decent with his 1 extra defensive board and inflated offensive boards? After examining the salary cap situation, I understand that with or without Jackson, we would still not have enough cap space to seperate us from the 4.5 exception. I'm just tired of people getting all excited over a guy that can't block shots playing as our C.
<i>Golden St. on average attempts 87.5 shots/game, 1st in the league, they shoot a very depressing 40.9% from the field. They also allow 82.2 shots a game. If my math is correct, that means that the Warriors games involve the highest amount of FG attempts in the league. </i> Actually, that isn't correct. There were 169.7 shots per game in the GS games (87.5 for GS and 82.2 for the opposition). There were 172.1 shots/game for Sacramento (87.5 for the Kings and 82.2 for the opposition). <i>Higher # of FG attempts = Higher # of possible rebounds </i> A higher number of attempts, doesn't necessarily mean more possible rebounds. A higher number of missed shots means more possible rebounds. For example Denver games had an average of 168.2 shots/game and Detroit games had an average of 167.4 shots/game. But, if you look at the number of missed shots, you'll find that there were 94.3 missed shots/game in Denver games and 95.5 missed shots/game in Detroit games. So, even though there were more shots taken in the Denver games, there were really more rebounding opportunities in the Detroit games. Let's look at this a little more: - There's 95.1 missed shots/game in GS games, that's the third highest total in the league. Are Webber and Ben Wallace's rebounding numbers also inflated? - There's 85.8 missed shots/game in the Knicks games, that's the lowest in the league. - So, the difference between the Warriors and the Knicks is a difference 9.3 misses/game. - You forgot to mention that GS is second to last in the league at giving up rebounds. Their opposition gets 45.5 reb/game which is identical to what the Warriors get. So, that means the opposition will get half of those 9.3 extra misses per game. So, GS wil get an extra 4.65 extra rebound opportunities over the Knicks. - Those extra 4.65 rebounding opportunities are spread out over the entire 48 minutes of the game. But, Jackson is only on the floor 61% of the game (29.4 minutes). So, there's 2.83 extra rebounds available for the time that Jackson is on the floor. - Now consider that Jackson will have to compete with 4 other teammates for those extra 2.83 rebounds. Even if you disregard the GS big men that were injured and didn't play many minutes alongside Jackson, it's not like Jackson was the teams sole rebounder (Jamison 8.7, Hughes 5.5, Mills 6.2,Sura 4.3, Blaylock 3.9, Porter 3.7,Blount 5.9, Keefe 3.1). For example if you look at the GS lineup that started vs the Rockets on 12/14, the lineup was Jackson, Jamison, Porter, Blaylock and Hughes. They average 25.4 reb/game between them. That means Jackson gets 29.5% of that lineup's rebounds. So, with that lineup, you would expect Jackson to get 29.5% of those extra 2.83 rebounds. That's a grand total of an extra .83 reb/game. - If the difference in missed shots between GS and the Knicks (who have the lowest total in the entire league) only affects Jackson's rebounding by less than a rebound/game, then I have a hard time believing that Jackson's rebounding numbers are overly inflated.
Please remeber that MarC didn't get much playing time at the beginning of the season. If you are going to look at his statistics then look at them when he was actually playing. Playing cleanup minutes doesn't show MarC's true capabilities. When he started he averaged around 10 boards a game.
I second that! This team along with the Clip Crew will surprise everyone when they make the play-offs
What's the freaking problem with many of these posters whining about a shot blocking center? How many teams have a legitimate shot blocker and why do block shots have to come from the center position? Eddie Griffin has been touted as a great shot blocker. Does anyone here believe that he will not get minutes in Rudy's system when he wants to create matchup problems? By the way, as far as arriving at a way to make the smaller players be afraid to come into the lane, how about the backcourt players make a better effort of playing defense out top and stop some of the expressway type penetration all NBA guards seem to have when they play the Rockets. Come on people, Jackson will probably come off the bench and that provides another scorer and someone else for the opposing team to think about. It's called depth. The Rockets finally have some. Most championship teams have it.
Actually I didn't care if Dream stayed or not because he was old and slow. Really? After all of the times Hakeem almost left, it would be really sad to see him go now. I hope this isn't some Rainey-esque joke. I hope Dream comes back, and I hope it's a good deal for both sides. I'm just messing with ya BGM. You do make some good points in regards to MJ's rebounding and have definitely stuck to your guns about his game.
Aw man! You caught me at a bad time with that post... As for all of the people that are saying "Well who else could we have gotten?" I realize now that it wasn't that bad of a deal. I guess we'll find out ourselves how overrated (if at all) Jackson is... Oh yeah, and Since75, you'll see that the majority of teams that made it to the playoffs and actually won a series (I think there was 1 or 2 exceptions) all had a center that averaged at least a block and a half per game. Jackson averages .5 block/game. Shotblocking matters, a team with a shotblocker can play tight with their guards and gamble for steals. On a happier note, our Center trio of Cato, Jackson, and Collier played in a total of 106 games last year. Let's just hope they aren't all injured at the same time...
this guy is not a good rebounder. if hes good then adonal foyle is dennis rodman.corey blount of all people averaged 8.5 boards in 24 minutes after been traded to golden state. foyle averaged the same number of board as jackson in 5 minutes less. golden state is home to inflated stats. they miss more shots than anyone in the league, this is the team that lets danny fortson average 16 rebounds and jamison whos a small forward 10 rebounds per. hes mechanical in the post and scored his points either when people didnt expect anything out of him or simply because golden state were down 20 and they were giving him free baskets because the other mob stopped playing defense. after they paid him attention he sucked, you want to his shooting in his last 10 games? 3-10, 6-19, 3-14, 5-10, 8-17, 2-12, 5-9, 7-12, 2-15, 4-18 yeah thats 33% shooting for a center, he cant do anything if you pay the slightest bit of attention to him this signing is not on the same bad level as the todd mac and booth signings but its questionable whether you should give a 20 game wonder a large 6 year deal. im not saying he cant improve, but this signing has bust written all over it. you have to wonder why golden state, a team who has erick dampier at center(whos every bit as bad as cato) didnt want him back. they must have know something you didnt. about the character issues, it was in the new york papers, he was rumored to have a very strange off court life and a headcase, they said he kept a pack of pitbulls chained in the woods somewhere and didnt feed them. there were also other stories, i dont know if its true but a few papers reported he had off court problems. look at his whining even before he signed, i think this guy is a potential headcase ready to go off
The same posters who b!tch about getting Jackson, would be crying in their Huggies about Cato being our Center. In the NBA, especially at C, you have to deal with the hand you were dealt. At this moment, Jackson is the best available C. If you were expecting Tim Duncan, you might as well waste money on powerball tickets. Jackson was hands down the best C, IMO, available, ahead of Booth, McCullough (sp?), and whatever scrub Center cashed in on a blind team desperate for a C. If you expected the Rockets to get a great center with the minimum, then it's time to check yourself into AA. Market-wise, getting a guy who averaged 13 points and 7 boards a night at 4 mill per year is a bargain. What is the point of crying about how much he makes? Does he somehow effect how much YOU make? Rockets are a better team with him than without him, so quit b!tching about the Rockets doing what they can to win. There are at least 20 teams who don't show the commitment to winning that the Rockets do. Be grateful for that, let alone be grateful that we got a FA steal. I guarantee that 99% of these crybabies are the same ones who hate Cato. That's justified, but to say that Jackson won't help, is flatout asinine. He will be an upgrade from Cato, and that 's all we need.
Uh, GS, like many other teams, have luxury tax issues to worry about. Unless you've been living under a rock, you would know that. The luxury tax has prevented players like Jackson and Mason from cashing in. Are you gonna now say the Heat know something about Mason that we don't know? Name me a player, let alone a rookie, who didn't struggle in a 10 game stretch. And, in 4 of those 10 games, he shot near or above 50%. So your idea that he struggled in 10 games is very very misleading. It's one thing to be mislead by someone else's stats, but when you mislead yourself, that is as pathetic as a Chris Dudley FT. Uh, they can't get rid of Dampier because he sucks and makes a lot of money. If Dampier was a FA like Jackson, I guarantee you GS signs Jackson before Dampier. Especially, since Jackson makes a lot less money than Dampier. Jackson still averaged 8.2 defensive boards per 48 minutes. What's your point? Also, he did this in the West, against the likes of some great rebounders like KG, Duncan, Robinson, Webber, etc. His stats would be more skewed if he played in the East, than by playing with GS. On the surface, you bring up valid points, but it's obvious that you didn't pay attention to specifics.
For those of you bemoaning Jackson's numbers at Golden State.... You might be shocked at how much a player's numbers can improve once they are no longer playing for a crap team. I love this signing. This is the news I've been waiting for. I can sleep much easier now.
I can't say I've exactly studied game film or anything, but I saw Marc Jackson play several times last (once live, the rest via League Pass) and I was always pretty impressed. I don't think anybody would call him a franchise center (accept maybe his agent) but how many franchise centers are there? In every game I saw, he had a solid game and usually had a very positive impact on the team when he was on the court. Based on last years play, he was one of the better centers in the league (IMHO) and definitely better (last year at least) than Cato and Collier. So, I guess it's just a gamble to see how much of an aberration it was (if any). But I'd have to say at that price, it's not a bad gamble in NBA terms. I think everyone here could name quite a few centers make A LOT more that really haven't done much for their teams. If Jackson plays well, he doesn't even need to play great, it gives us a great bagaining piece in future trades. I don't know what he does to the team chemistry, but this seems to be the year to make chemistry gambles in Houston (Rice, Griffen and potentially losing Stevie's pal Norris). Lets throw all these guys together and see what we have. Oh, just another thought that occurred to me. If it wasn't for the impending luxury tax, I think most people would agree that Marc Jacson would have been swept up by somebody back in the first week of free agency. He was considered a hot commodity before everybody did their budget checks. There is a chance this could be quite a steal. --Drof
Let's say for argument's sake, that Jackson isn't a good rebounder or defender. That makes him exactly like Mo Taylor. I'm not the biggest Mo Taylor fan, but at this point I would take a Mo Taylor. Odds are that Jackson will provide good rebounding for us, making me like him more than Mo. That's good enough for me. I sure hope that all these Jackson bashers aren't the same ones who think Mo Taylor is God.
