thoughts from the other teams point of view: nets want size so they're probably going to take mihm or martin. they have vanhorn, but martin is probably worth it. in any case, they take mihm or martin. grizzlies like fizer. fizer likes grizzlies. nuff said. clips can't take swift cause he won't play for them. fizer and either martin or mihm are already gone. they need size but they also need someone who will play for them. moiso is good, but clips can probably get him and more with a trade. houston comes in here. bulls take mihm or martin, whoever is left. now back to the clips. no offense, but if we keep our backcourt of francis, mobley, norris, and anderson, and keep cato and add swift...we are going to be kicking some serious *** for a long time. that is a core that every nba team should be scared of, granted growth and complementary players are needed, but the core is AWESOME. the clips know this, and i don't think any nba team is going to give us that core on a silver platter. even the clips. they've made mistakes in the past, but they're not stupid, and they know they need to get out of the mess that they're in. don't look for any more stupid moves from them. so, look at it from their point of view. they'll take our number 9 to get moiso, someone who will play for them. but they want some players who are worth trading the number three pick for. moiso is a nice start, but we would have to give more than srubs to complete the quality of a number three pick. the thing is, we have good players, but not anything that is going to really compensate for the loss of a 3 pick which would land a franchise type player like swift. i don't think they are going to want to give us anything of quality besides the 3 pick. in other words, we will be giving them players like drew, thomas, and maybe some others, but if they're smart they're going to give us crap in return. i wouldn't give up kandi and swift for moiso, thomas, and drew. that's dumb. but, i would do the following: i'd give up my 3 pick and necessary scrubs for moiso at the 9 pick, thomas, drew, the two first rounders we are owed in the next two years ( i think that's right), and walt, and maybe even cato too. now that would give us swift, some clipper scrubs that we don't want. and we would have a really big hole at sf and center (if they take cato). we would be deep at pg and sg and we would have a starting pf. but we would have to play mobes and anderson at the 3 alot more and if they took cato we would be in desparate need for a center. but if those things can be filled vie fa, we'd still have some pretty kick ass starters. we wouldn't be deep in the front court, but that's the price you pay for getting somebody like swift. the clippers get leadership and fire in walt, a starting pg in drew, a high potential pf in moiso, a high potential pf in thomas, two first rounders which could bring unknown talent or disappointment in the next few years, and possibly a young running shotblocker in cato. not bad for them, and even if they continute to suck, they'll probably get another top 3 next year plus the two first rounders we give them from the trades. anyway, that's the way i see it now. we can probably get swift, but we're going to lose some serious depth for it. here's a long shot: dream, pig swift bullard anderson, mobley francis, norris and a bunch of clipper scrubs...sorry...but that's the best we can hope for imo. keep in mind bullard is not a starting caliber sf, pig would have to back up both swift and our asthmatic olajuwon, olajuwon is gone in a year and might not make it through the whole year in itself, pig is not a starting caliber center. all those concerns would have to be filled via free agency or the clipper scrubs. is swift worth it? probably. if the clippers don't take cato? definitely.
Nice thoughts Wham, but what about the chances of the Paper Clips packaging their #3 pick with Anderson or Mo Taylor in some sort of trade, so they can get some players back who can play now. I think the Clips have a good opportunity to turn things around this off season if for once they make some smart decisions, keep Odom, Kandi and Nesby, trade Anderson and Taylor for something decent in return and then use the #3 pick wisely. You got wonder if they trade Anderson and Taylor for something good, if Swift wouldn't change his mind and play for the Clips, would be fun to watch a team built around Odom and Swift. Smeg ------------------ CUT Tino Isn't it amazing how quickly everyone did a Cat Backflip!!!!!
I agree with WHAM, very well said in fact. im not sure the clips will give us Swift if we give them the moon they could very well wake up and realize he is damn good. if we move cato, does that put us under the cap? could we then go for croshere, or even better dare i say R.Lewis? i wont be greedy hehe still i would LOVE to get croshere that guy has game. especially for a white guy and he is very versatile. and btw, i dont think we could move walt and cato. walt if im right makes 4.5 mill, cato like 6 mil? thats 10.4 mill, the clips wont want to take up that much cap space. a realistic scenario cato #9 moiso drew KT two future owed 1st rounders from Det and Orl carlos sorry dont have the heart to send the wiz to clipperland hahaha. ------------------ --TEX [This message has been edited by TeXaSalsa (edited May 28, 2000).]
Wham, Let me first state that in general, I agree that trading up with the Clippers (for the number 3 pick in the draft) would be costly to the Rockets. However, Stromile Swift WOULD NOT BE WORTH giving up Cato, Thomas, Williams and Drew. NO WAY-NO HOW! First of all the Rockets would never leave us with such glaring holes at two positions (SF and Center). For instance, last year when giving up Othella for Francis, the Rocket's absolutely insisted that the Grizzles give us Tony Massenberg. Second, your proposed Rockets lineup is missing Carlos Rogers (who is under contract with the Rockets next year). You need to add Carlos Rogers at PF or SF (if Walt Williams were gone). Third, the Clippers don't need Williams (when they already have Odum). Fourth, no way we give up Cato without Candy in return (IT IS A DEAL BUSTER!) Fifth, ask yourself this, what real leaverage do the Clippers have? They won't be able to put Swift in a Clippers uniform no matter whether they draft him or not. So the question they must ask themselves in the mirror is: "Are the Clippers better off with Thomas, Moiso and Drew (who fill their needs at PF and PG) or with whoever else besides Martin, Mihm and Swift may be available in the NBA draft at the number three spot. Even worse, if the draft goes #1 Martin, #2 Fizer (as some have suggested) and can't sign Swift (because he refuses to play for the Clippers & has not yet retained an agent so he could return to LSU for another year) now who do they get at number three? PENNIES ON THE DOLLAR that's who! Wouldn't you really prefer to fill some glaring needs if you were them? The only real question for the Clippers as I see it is will Moiso be available at number nine (this could be made conditional) and can they get a better deal from anyone else. Remember, the cost for Steve Francis was only Dickerson, Harrington, and Scrubs (because Vancouver had no real leverage). ------------------ [This message has been edited by Swami (edited May 28, 2000).]
i'm pretty tired, i'm sure my thoughts have many glaring holes in them. my main point is that if we do by some miracle pull off a trade with the clips, we aren't going to do it by just getting rid of our extras: drew, walt, thomas. we'll have holes some where and we'll have to give up value which will probably have to include picks. i don't want kandi. perhaps i'm wrong, but i've heard other posters around here say that he's kind of slow. i'd rather just keep cato, even if it's just for the defense. in all honesty, i would be really happy with just getting mike miller at nine, but in many mock drafts i've been reading miller has gone to the hawks at the sixth pick. and the mock drafts where he was available at nine, had teams ahead of us taking some of those crazy named foreign centers. i kind of doubt those situations and wouldn't be surprised to see miller go before nine. if we don't get swift, miller, or miles, i don't really want our pick at all and would rather trade it. i know this has been beaten to death, but my untouchables: francis, norris anderson, mobley cato players who are definitely going to be gone before nine: mihm, martin, fizer, swift, miles, miller to me those are the best six players in the draft. if we can get three of the teams ahead of us to draft some player not on that list, then i saw wowzers. i have to agree with smeg though. the clips have some chances to make some really smart moves and i think they will. but hey, june 28 should be a pretty exciting day! that's all i REALLY know.
Alot of things happen before the draft, players that are considered to be high draft picks can drop. I wouldnt mind staying at the 9th and drafting someone decent. But I got to say that Deshawn Stevenson has impressed me alot, he is going to be something. ------------------ President of the Moochie Norris FAN CLUB
If the Rockets can get Stromile Swift, they could be a very exciting young team. I think the Nets will go with Kenyon Martin at #1 to fill their defensive holes which would put Vancouver in an interesting situation. If this new management wants to play it safe and go with a player that wants to be there, Marcus Fizer would look to be the choice. However, I think they would try to trade down in the draft for him as it was posted they feel he could be there at 4 or 5. Orlando seems to be interested in Kenyon Martin but in that article Nikestrad linked to, it stated that the Nets turned down the offer of 5 and 10 for 1. I think the only way the Magic offer that for #2 is if Martin is on the board. However, the Bulls are interested in Mihm so they could possibly work a deal with Vancouver to move from 4 to 2. I am not convinced the Bulls would offer the hefty price of 4 and 7 but maybe they could figure something else out. That would leave Swift on the board for the Clippers. If he does force their hand, I think a deal involving Cato, Moiso, Drew for Kandi and Swift as Rocketsfan mentioned is a fair one considering the circumstances. The Clippers would field a starting rotation of Cato, Moiso, Odom, Nesby, Drew, not too shabby. The Rockets would have Kandi, Swift, Williams, Anderson, Francis which is also an improvement. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
really interesting news clutch. BTW, do u know why Swift likes da rox so much? ------------------ treasurer of the moochie norris fan club
Alaskan: I bet it is because he is from Louisiana. I mean, who do you root for there? Dallas? San Antonio? Nope - Rockets! ------------------ "No one gets out ALIVE!" SaveOurRockets.com
With all the trades people are talking about, it could look like this: <OL>[*] NJ drafts Mihm, trades him to Chicago for picks #4 and #7. [*] Vancouver drafts Martin [*] LAC trades their pick, Kandi and Piatkowski to Houston for #9, Cato, Drew, and their Detroit pick. Houston takes Swift. [*] NJ does three way with Vancouver and Orlando. Orlando trades their #5, #10, #13 to Vancouver for Martin. Vancouver trades the #5, and #13 to NJ for their #4, and take Fizer. [*] NJ trades #5 pick and Kittles to Portland for Jermaine Oneal and #28 pick. Portland takes Prysbilla. [*] Atlanta takes Miller [*] NJ takes Miles [*] Cleveland takes Tsakalidis [*] LAC takes Jerome Moiso [*] Vancouver trades this pick and Harrington (and maybe West) to someone for a center. That team takes either DerMarr Johnson or Courtney Alexander. [*] Dallas takes Oyedji [*] Boston takes Alexander or Johnson [*] NJ takes Peterson [*] Detroit takes Deshawn Stephenson, or gives pick to Houston, who takes Stephenson. ... just one way it could go ... ------------------ the more I know, the more I know I don't know...
I dont understand why Atlanta or Cleveland hasnt been mentioned in any trades--They seem to be let out in that mock draft...GIVE THEM A CHANCE GUYS!!!!!!!!!!HAHA ------------------ Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things!
Let me shake things up here a bit. From all of my semi-reliable Canadian sources, Vancouver has Swift #1 on their draft chart. All the trade and Fizer BS is a bluff towards Chicago so they make an effort to trade up to #1 to take Mihm to ensure that Swift is still there at #2. Versace is a very good shyster however Billy Knight, his assistant is not and basically told people who Vancouver is after through his demeanor and actions. The only way Swift gets past Vancouver is if he pulls a Francis and anyone here who has followed the career of Stromile Swift understands that it ain't happening. ------------------
You guys have to stop believing everything you hear on rumour boards. First off, the Grizzlies want and will take a long PF, not a Marcus Fizer. That means Kenyon Martin or Stromile Swift. Listen to what both the owner and management have said the team's primary needs are: athleticism, shot-blocking, defence, toughness. Fizer is a nice player, but not here. Martin and Swift are better players, period. Second, taking Martin then trading him to get Fizer is a complete non-starter. Third, where is this source about Swift "loving" Houston. I've heard that floated around before, but it just sounds like a crackpipe that people keep passing around. And even if he did have a preference for one place over another, that has nothing to do with where he will go. Stromile Swift will be drafted by the Vancouver Grizzlies on June 28th. Houston Rockets will pick 9th, unless they find someone else stupid enough to trade down their pick. ------------------ Swift4Grizz June 28, 2000
Grizzperson most likely that will happen. BUT it is possible that the Vanc will draft Fizer. Why? Vanc Mgmnt: WOW! someone who actually would like to play for us! Swift likes Houston. If you think he would prefer Vancouver or Clipperville over the Rocks, then YOU have been smoking the pipe too much. BTW Grizz man, whoever Vanc team picks, they will still be the doormats in the NBA. How many lotto picks does Vanc need anyway? ------------------ I have a special purpose.
Swift4Grizz- Hi, welcome to the board. I'd have to agree, I don't see why the Grizz would pass over Swift to get Fizer- unless he really has sent the message that he doesn't want to play there, and it indeed it has been reported he has said just that to both Clips and Grizz. Swift may have more class, and might not be as likely to pull a Francis, but after the awful debacle last summer, why would Grizz management even risk it? The trade turned out well for you, but the public stink certainly did not. Did you check out the link by Nikestrad above? Perhaps you think Louisiana State University has a hidden agenda listing the Rockets as Swift's favorite team- but if you did, you'd have to put the pipe down. Perhaps you're unfamiliar with American geography- Louisiana is the immediate neighbor to the east of Texas. Houston is the nearest NBA city, Dallas 4 hours to the north of it and San Anton a good bit west. I don't need to read four different cross-referenced sources to draw some conclusions about who Swift's favorite NBA team is from that evidence. But if you want, we can find those references. Furthermore, you wouldn't know this since you're new, but we have some excellent inside info from our man Clutch, as well as posters Popeye and DrRocket, among others. There's a lot of overly-optimistic speculation here, but if you read the right people, you'll find some very juicy info also. Swift has shown every indication that he would prefer to go back to school than play for a team he doesn't want to play for. That doesn't guarantee Vancouver and Clippers are going to take less talented players, but it gives us room to dream. Don't get all sour on us because you want Swift, and Swift wants to play for us and not Vancouver. It isn't our fault.
Nolen-and it can't be a hidden agenda, cause check the date from the stats......they're from his freshman year! ------------------ Rockets fans wanted at hoopsboards.com Draft Chat, NBA Chat, Team Chat, and more!
Because Swift wants to retain his NCAA eligibility currently, he can't allow teams to fly him in for workouts and pay for his stay. Swift isn't from the wealthiest family and has to hold workouts in Shreveport. Because of Houston's proximity to Shreveport, Swift can afford to drive down for a work out. [This message has been edited by Sky Pilot (edited May 29, 2000).]
Hmmmm, and how many quality FAs has Vancouver attracted? Good for the Grizz, that KM wants to play there too. Too bad he probly wont be there for the 2nd pick. Lot of draftees probly wouldnt have a problem playing there, but WANT to play somewhere else. Havent the Grizz been saying that for awhile now? Im waiting for them to shed their doormat status. This was one of the Rockets worst years in quite awhile and the Rockets were still a much better team than the Grizz. Whatever pick the Grizz get from the Rockets, you can rest assurred it wont be a lotto pick. BTW, Vanc probly will get Swift. But that doesnt mean that he wouldnt PREFER to play in Houston. That doesnt mean that there isnt a small window of opportunity for the Rockets to somehow end up with Swift. The draft is still a long ways away. A lot of things could happen between now and then. ------------------ I have a special purpose.
I disagree with the statement that VAN has a brighter paper future than Houston. Mind you, we're going under the cap next year, while maintaining our core, and VAN has the Big Contract, so they'll be staying above sea level for awhile. We also don't know about Reef, and if he's gonna follow through. I am leaning towards believing popeye, as he did break the Francis news, and that means he likely has a reliable source in Vancouver. Also, Francis isn't the only one who didn't want to be in Vancouver, add Othella Harrington to that list. The pick doesn't have to be for another 3 years....in 3 years, I'd say there's a good chance that we'll pick up another star caliber player (via FA, trade, etc.) that'll put our pick somewhere in the 20s.....and, it IS in fact a CONDITIONAL pick. Meaning, we can pick up pick #29 from the Lakers, and send it on over to them. Meanwhile, we have a Detroit pick, which I am looking forward to, because of their Hill situation, and lack of big men. Could we strike luck, like Orlando did this year, with a pick they obtained that wasn't supposed to be worth much, and then hit it big? (We got the pick for Mirsad Turkey..Turksan). I see a common thread with our situation compared to Chicago's, and Orlando's. Both of them went into a year with lots of salary available, and several picks. We have a pick from Detroit owed to us, and Orlando, and our own, and the difference is-we have a core, and some young superstars. ------------------ Rockets fans wanted at hoopsboards.com Draft Chat, NBA Chat, Team Chat, and more!
Sky, A big tip, this is a Rockets forum, so I'd be wary to start who has a brighter future debate. Watch out what you say or you'll be nothing but a breeze... ------------------ Check out the new and improved Draftsource.net
