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Rip, AI, and Stuckey

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by worzel gummidge, Jan 13, 2009.

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worzel gummidge Member

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http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=IversonTrade-Dumars-081103

November 3, 2008
My conversation with Dumars on Monday revealed at least four key factors in this latest gambit:

First, he has always been a fan of Iverson. In the summer of 2000, the Pistons made an aggressive move to acquire Iverson in a whopping, 14-player deal. At the last second, the deal was scuttled when Matt Geiger refused to waive his trade kicker.

...Second, Dumars is banking on Stuckey being the real deal. His talent is undeniable, but he has to become a star to justify the trade.
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http://forums.detnews.com/redesign/blogs/pistonsblog/index.cfm?blogid=1711

Jan 9, 2009
But I don’t think Rip is hearing any of it. Our exchange went something like this:

So, what’s going to happen when you come back, do you think you will jump right back into the starting lineup?

Rip: “Yeah, that’s the only option.”

Well, there is another option — coming off the bench.

Rip: “That ain’t happening.”

This could require an intervention from Joe Dumars.
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http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/ryanfield/2009/01/08/Bench_Anyone_Rip_or_AI_could_be_the_Answer

Jan 08, 2009
While it makes sense on paper, making Rip agree to it is a whole different matter. I posed the question to his long-time teammate Chauncey Billups earlier this morning, and his answer was simply “Good luck with that!” Based on that answer alone, one would believe it would be difficult for Curry and Joe Dumars to convince Rip to become a reserve.
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http://www.detroitbadboys.com/archives/2009-01-12/rip-to-the-bench-that-aint-happening/

January 12, 2009
Allen Iverson hasn’t had a 50% shooting night in 10 games, shooting 37.5% in that span. Rip, on the other hand, shot 51% for the entire month of December (or, more accurately, in 11 of the 14 games he appeared in). This stat has been bandied around endlessly in the DBB comments (it’s practically been Mike Payne’s signature) but sadly it’s been ignored by most of the mainstream media. Yes, Iverson has had his share of late-game heroics, but he’s also had more than his fair share of early-game struggles.

No one wants to admit it, but at this stage in his career, Allen Iverson is nothing more than T.J. Ford without a conscience. A useful player who has his moments, but not one who should be shoe-horned into the starting lineup at the expense of a player who actually fits the offense, has a track record of success in the system and will still be a member of the team next year.

If I were Rip, I’d feel insulted, too.
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http://www.freep.com/article/20090113/COL08/901130316/A.I.++not+Rip++should+come+off+the+bench

January 13, 2009
The Pistons have an important decision coming. Either Rip Hamilton or Allen Iverson must become the sixth man. Neither will like the demotion, but there's no alternative.
Advertisement

This is becoming Rodney Stuckey's team much faster than anybody envisioned.

...It's the politics that could kill the Pistons.

Hamilton's become a diva. He told reporters recently that he's not coming off the bench.

Somebody should remind Rip that it's not his call.

He's openly challenged Curry on the bench, disagreeing with the rookie head coach's game rotation. There was one point during a Sunday Palace loss against Portland when Curry told Hamilton that if he didn't like his decision, he could stay on the bench.
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#1 worzel gummidge, Jan 13, 2009

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And the point of all this?

#2 3814, Jan 13, 2009
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countdown to string of mcgrady for hamilton-wallace posts (which has been off the table since the iverson trade)....

3, 2,...

#3 thacabbage, Jan 13, 2009
Apollo Creed Contributing Member

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3814 said:

And the point of all this?
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Uh, did you not read the articles he posted?

2 starting spots open.

Stuckey is the PG. He's starting.

Either AI or Rip is moving to the bench, and both are going to throw hissies.

#4 Apollo Creed, Jan 13, 2009
worzel gummidge Member

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3814 said:

And the point of all this?
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Rockets not the only team being looked at by Palmolive for sponsorship.

#5 worzel gummidge, Jan 13, 2009
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Can't blame Rip for not wanting to come off the bench.

#6 Shaud, Jan 13, 2009
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Apollo Creed said:

Uh, did you not read the articles he posted?

2 starting spots open.

Stuckey is the PG. He's starting.

Either AI or Rip is moving to the bench, and both are going to throw hissies.
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I did read it, but a little commentary in the OP wouldn't be bad when half the articles are outdated...especially considering all three CAN (and often do) start together.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=AlXzzUq92sJtT8Yo4OKGn1JaPKB4?gid=2008120927
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=AjX4n0VBCquTOQs8Ei9Yqv1aPKB4?gid=2008121208
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=AgigpuudiceRsWRx3wcYUhhaPKB4?gid=2008121330
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=AqdFlDRm.K9DO8wx2I7n2VxaPKB4?gid=2008121708
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=Aqku3..q8vkNVz044o39ampaPKB4?gid=2008121908
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=AntnCl3Vmzw8qEmjYvQMPORaPKB4?gid=2008122101
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=AiQOuu7L8UHa_o1Ugg25uCRaPKB4?gid=2008122308
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=AkroVwvzeiLKzzPJKegjpjdaPKB4?gid=2008122608

#7 3814, Jan 13, 2009

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If Curry puts Rip on the bench instead of AI, he's a complete idiot. But I'd say there is a 95% chance that he decides in favor of Rip starting. It is so very obvious what the decision should be that he can't miss it.

#8 A_3PO, Jan 13, 2009
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Stuckey, Iverson, Rip, Prince, and Sheed...who else deserves to be a starter?

#9 3814, Jan 13, 2009
Last edited: Jan 13, 2009
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3814 said:

Stuckney, Iverson, Rip, Prince, and Sheed...who else deserves to be a starter?
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Amir Johnson is the guy. He supposedly makes them a better defensive team and Curry is going to continue starting him.

#10 A_3PO, Jan 13, 2009
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3814 said:

Stuckney, Iverson, Rip, Prince, and Sheed...who else deserves to be a starter?
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Prince can't play PF nor Richard Hamilton can fairly play at SF.

Too much.

I understand Richard Hamilton, still think he is one of the most underrated players in the game.

#11 ReD_1, Jan 13, 2009
worzel gummidge Member

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http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2009/01/pistons_michael_curry_ponders_1.html

January 13, 2009
AUBURN HILLS -- Richard Hamilton could return to the active roster as soon as tonight, which means Detroit Pistons coach Michael Curry will have to make some tough choices.

While Curry is not ready to commit to a decision, all indications are that a change involving Hamilton or Allen Iverson coming off the bench is on the horizon.

Curry said he has yet to talk with Hamilton -- who has missed eight games due to a groin injury -- or Iverson about a possible lineup change.

"When it's time, we'll talk about it," Curry said. "These guys understand. Y'all write about it enough and talk about it. They know that it's out there. But at the proper time, we'll sit down and we'll explain the decision that we make, and we'll explain why."

Both Hamilton and Iverson have been starters for most of their NBA careers.

"I wouldn't expect them to like it, coming off the bench," Curry said. "Both of them have been starters in their careers. I wouldn't expect them to, just like I wouldn't expect to have guys on this team that don't want to play a lot of minutes.

"But the reality is we have great guys on this team. They're all willing to do whatever it takes for this team to be successful. Whatever decisions we make, it's going to be because we think that's the best thing we need to do to get the most out of everybody on this team.

Curry added: "Regardless of whether guys like it or not, they'll be OK because their number one thing is they want to win."

Still, it will be difficult for Curry to convince either player to buy into the idea of becoming a backup after so many years as a starter.

Hamilton has been Detroit's leading scorer each of the past six seasons, and ranks among the franchise's all-time best. Iverson, who came to Detroit via a trade with Denver on Nov. 3, has scored more than 23,000 points and has a career 27.3 points per game scoring average.

But scoring is not emphasized on a Curry-coached team.

And for all the good that Detroit's "small ball" lineup with Hamilton and Iverson has done, the Pistons' defense takes a hit when the two have to play together for extended periods of time.

"When we got two bigs and (Tayshaun Prince) at the three-spot, we're our best defensively," Curry said.

"At the end of the day, that's what's going to drive most of our decisions that we make: what group is going to be the best defensively, and how we can best utilize those other two guys at the two-spot."
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#12 worzel gummidge, Jan 13, 2009
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I don't know. With 6 wins and 3 losses with the lineup I posted...I wouldn't bother messing with things and hurting egos.

If you need a defensive stop, change things up...but what's the harm of starting them all together - especially when you have a better record doing it that way than anything else.

Also - comments such as these can be turned both ways:

And for all the good that Detroit's "small ball" lineup with Hamilton and Iverson has done, the Pistons' defense takes a hit when the two have to play together for extended periods of time.
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Could easily be counter-argued with - "And for all the good that Detroit's "defensive" lineup with two-bigs on the court has done, the Pistons' offense takes a hit without having Iverson and Hamilton playing together for extended periods of time.

#13 3814, Jan 13, 2009

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3814 said:

I don't know. With 6 wins and 3 losses with the lineup I posted...I wouldn't bother messing with things and hurting egos.

If you need a defensive stop, change things up...but what's the harm of starting them all together - especially when you have a better record doing it that way than anything else.

Also - comments such as these can be turned both ways:

Could easily be counter-argued with - "And for all the good that Detroit's "defensive" lineup with two-bigs on the court has done, the Pistons' offense takes a hit without having Iverson and Hamilton playing together for extended periods of time.[/QUOTE]

You're fishing deep there. Everybody and their mama knows that Iverson and Rip Hamilton is a really bad fit on the court at the same time. They're both extremely repetetive and high volume shooters who need the ball in their hands (not spot up shooters). Playing both significant amounts at the same time screws up the rest of the rotation. This is not the GSW Warriors. I'd be surprised if one weren't dealt before the TDL.
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#14 Asian Sensation, Jan 13, 2009
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You're fishing deep there. Everybody and their mama knows that Iverson and Rip Hamilton is a really bad fit on the court at the same time. They're both extremely repetetive and high volume shooters who need the ball in their hands (not spot up shooters). Playing both significant amounts at the same time screws up the rest of the rotation. This is not the GSW Warriors. I'd be surprised if one weren't dealt before the TDL.
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It has been their most successful lineup all year - when starting Stuckey, Iverson, Rip, Prince, and Sheed they are 6-3. That's really not fishing very deep at all...

#15 3814, Jan 13, 2009
Last edited: Jan 13, 2009
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That has not been the most successful lineup. Any lineup with Stuckey starting in it has been the most successful. He's the key.

It appears they aren't going to put either Rip or AI on the bench for now. That's a mistake, but we'll see how it eventually plays out. I can see a trade or an eventual moving to the bench of one of those two (and it should be AI for a number of reasons).

Amir Johnson is the guy who gets the starts when they go with a traditional lineup. The team's defense is just incredibly improved with him out there. He's a great defender. Great rebounder and shotblocker. He has one extreme flaw though and that's he's also a record setting fouler. He's just 21, so hopefully he'll learn how to avoid the bad fouls.

#16 Hobbs, Jan 13, 2009
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here's the thought. put stuckey on the bench this season. let the stars get a long and give yourself a chance at winning a playoff series.

turn the team over to stuckey next year when AI is gone.

#17 smoothie, Jan 13, 2009
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Rip Hamilton and Iverson are both starting. Same with Stuckey

#18 King1, Jan 13, 2009

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smoothie said:

here's the thought. put stuckey on the bench this season. let the stars get a long and give yourself a chance at winning a playoff series.

turn the team over to stuckey next year when AI is gone.
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Here's a better thought: Put AI on the bench since he won't be returning to the Pistons. A short-term player is a short-term player.

Starting Stuckey gives the Pistons their best shot this year. He's ready. You also don't want to slow his development into a stud PG by making such a short-sighted move.

Turn the Pistons over to Stuckey now so he can get better and help you contend for a championship eventually, maybe as soon as next year. This season is the time for him to work out the kinks.

#19 A_3PO, Jan 13, 2009
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A_3PO said:

Here's a better thought: Put AI on the bench since he won't be returning to the Pistons. A short-term player is a short-term player.

Starting Stuckey gives the Pistons their best shot this year. He's ready. You also don't want to slow his development into a stud PG by making such a short-sighted move.

Turn the Pistons over to Stuckey now so he can get better and help you contend for a championship eventually, maybe as soon as next year. This season is the time for him to work out the kinks.
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Agreed with this on all points.

Additionally, AI is sucking major balls this year and his shooting percentage is abysmal. (as if were possible to get any lower)

At this point in his career, Iverson would be well suited to being a scoring sparkplug off the bench.

#20 Apollo Creed, Jan 13, 2009

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