Actually, you are completely wrong, and our lawyer friend Refman, who likes to throw around words like cease and desist on a basketball bulletin board, could probably confirm this. As I am not the government, voicing my opinion that I feel uncomfortable with public praying when it is done in an ostentatious manner is actually not a trespass against freedom of speech, but me exercising my freedom of speech (which would in this case be limited by the rules Clutch as the private owner of this website sets, but I believe I am well within these rules, as this discussion takes place in the D&D). I realize that I am not stating a popular opinion here - at least I managed to unite our religious friends from different religions . Again, people need to realize that I was not calling for any governmental intervention against public prayer - I merely stated that I, personally, feel uncomfortable with it if I get the impression that it is done more as a demonstration than a sincere prayer, and asked people for their viewpoints. That's all.
Funny...I didn't remember you at all, let alone as being an insufferable ass. Actually, you are wrong. There is nothing that states that people cannot pray in public. They cannot be forced to pray (ie school prayer), but they are free to pray if they wish. If you try to stop them by telling them they cannot would likely involve you claiming some authority you don't actually have. I also like to throw around words like insufferable ass. See above for an example. To be more accurate, you stated that you are offended by "bearded men" praying "with their ass in the air." I wonder who you could have been talking about... So, in reality (a place you do not seem to frequent), you expressed your displeasure with Muslim men. Now that you very understandably are met with a harsh reaction from several posters, you decide to call people aggressive, misread their posts and insult the verbiage they use. It is hilarious. You come in here and make very bigoted statements and then decide to deride them and call them "aggressive." What a tool.
How did you get through law school with such a minimum of reading comprehension? Where exactly did I say that there is something that states they cannot pray in public - or that I would even want something like that? You cannot be a good lawyer if you cannot even read. Re-read my previous post, where I state for the 10th time in this thread that I am talking about my personal feeling of being uncomfortable when someone does it, not that I think there is anything that prohibits it or that I would wish there was. Well, when you have nothing else to base your ridiculous rant on, you become desperate and need to resort to insults. That's what I see here. You're a joke.
I think it is evident for almost everyone who read the thread, except for you, that his implies that you want them to stop: I know the technicalities. I know you didn't say that they should ban it. But everything everyone is saying, for or against you, is based on the above statement. Some here find it contradictory because you are constantly on about intolerance while your "feeling" appears to be intolerant. For example, it wasn't long ago that people had a "feeling" that they were better than members of other races/people and hence did countless things such as took them for slaves, threw them in concentration camps, etc etc. Those people did not have logic or rationale. Much like you don't appear to have in your "feeling". perhaps the only logic which anyone can appeal to is related to peopel praying in inappropriate places - blocking movement, traffic, etc. But you stated that your problem is mainly with bearded men. For example, if I got a feeling that I should kill someone for fun, I would be crazy and should be throw in a psych ward or jail. The reason is that the feeling implies there is something wrong in my head. In the same way, your feeling implies a certain thing. There are a variety of opinions, good and bad, on what those things are. Some agree with you and some disagree with you. But all I'm trying to say is that acting like you don't know where the responses are coming from - that's being obtuse. It is simply from the sentence I quoted above, which is fortunately for you not describing an action that needs to be taken, but unfortunately for you vague enough to warrant a discussion on why you are having this.... "feeling". Allahu akbar.
Thanks for acknowledging this. In contrast to Refman, at least you have grasped that. To make it clear for the 100th time: - I personally feel uncomfortable when someone (of whatever religion) publicly prays in what I consider to be an ostentatious manner. - Feeling uncomfortable and wanting something to be outlawed are two vastly different things. I do not want above mentioned behavior to be outlawed. I just wanted to discuss it and find out if others may feel similarly about it. I feel uncomfortable when a chick tries to make me dance with her. I don't want dancing outlawed. That's a fair point. However, saying that something makes me feel uncomfortable is vastly different from the following - being outraged and burning down embassies - hoping that someone lives in fear for the rest of his life because of a cartoon - threatening people because they said something one might have found offensive Huge difference. Actually, part of the reason why it makes me feel uncomfortable might be because I might (rightly or wrongly) have the idea that someone who is ostentatious about his religious feelings might also be more fundamentalist with regards to them.
This comment was obviously made in jest, and in contrast to a hot girl in the same position. I realize it was offensive to some and sort of took away from my other points in the discussion, as it made it seem that I was only talking about a specific religion, which is not what I meant. But hey Refman, if you prefer the visual of bearded men with their asses in the air as opposed to an attractive girl, that's your choice. To each his own.
Definitely not. Me saying that I feel uncomfortable when I see people pray publicly in an ostentatious manner and you saying you want someone to be in fear for the rest of his life over a cartoon - not the same category. AT ALL.
Let's see... Annoying 1 billion people intentionally - for a laugh.. vs Kneeling on the ground under the assumption that the creator of the universe asked for this. It's easy to see things from one's own perspective. I respect that you don't agree with the reasons of those who pray, but I can't respect your islamophobia. Unless you think anyone believes your "I was just joking about the bearded men" explanation. Anyways, I'm done with this. If you are wondering why it's so important for people to pray, even if in public, I'd be happy to have a discussion with you. Maybe it would ease your feeling of discomfort for such a harmless action.
I don't say that I disagree with the reasons of those who pray, in general. I respect people's desire to pray. I sometimes still do it myself. I think my specific issue with the "bearded men" is probably not restricted to praying. Probably my gut feeling is that the more pronounced someone's outward expression of his religious beliefs (of which public prayer is only one element, others being beard, clothes, etc. - let me find examples from other religions while I am busy making enemies from all religions: the typical features of orthodox Jews' clothing and haircuts, for instance...the ape**** crazy "getting nailed to a cross" Christians in the Philippines...) is on a more generic level that I am under the impression that the more someone "stands out" based on actions or features of their religion, the higher the likelihood that they lean toward being fundamentalist within their religion and the higher the likelihood that they have little tolerance for those who do not share their beliefs. Having said that, one of the nicest guys I have ever met was a Sikh who has never cut his hair in his life due to his (mainly his parents') religious beliefs, and I totally respect the guy and he did not strike me as intolerant at all. So I am aware that my theory of "the more pronounced the outward expression of religion, the higher the likelihood that there is intolerance for other beliefs" certainly at least has exceptions to it. Also, I am very skeptical of Islam in its current state. I am not islamophobic. That's a difference. I don't hate anyone just because they are a Muslim. But I am still trying to understand if the root of the problems we have with Islamic fundamentalism in the world nowadays is at the core of the religion or if there is another reason that the common denominator of all these displays of intolerance and outrage and acts of terror is that they are committed "in the name of Islam", at least based on the words of those who commit them. As you can tell, this is my main topic here in the D&D, simply because I think it is one of the biggest problems of our time, and at the same time I am not claiming I know all the answers. But yes, I am highly skeptical of Islam (or the more intolerant elements in it) as it stands today. So I guess my issue, in summary, is more "someone forcing their religion on me", as which I perceive ostentatious cases of public prayer as well as perpetually "being offended" because of something. The more someone tries to force their religious beliefs upon others, the higher I think there is a likelihood that they aggressively believe their religion is "better" and the more intolerant they are of "non-believers" or people who have a different belief system. That is probably my core issue, and the public prayer is just one example.
Earlier.. AroundTheWorld, if you have any interest whatsoever, do some proper research. Read the text. It's not longer than a book you might read here or there. If you don't have time, then ask about problematic parts and demand an explanation. Reading from The Assertive Atheist and focusing on a select number of people who, in your opinion, pray to be noticed won't get you anywhere excpet to where religious people have been for thousands of years... We know there are people who do this, but don't judge or become uncomfortable for a few reasons: 1) It doesn't affect us. 2) If true, it is their loss. 3) We simply cannot determine if it is true or not. Again, if you are truly intent on understanding, there are better ways than what you appear to be doing.
You misunderstand. I am not interested in being converted to being a Muslim, which is what you are apparently trying to do with people here. I do not want to learn the Koran. I want to understand why apparently the radical elements within Islam cannot be held in check so they can leave the rest of the world in peace, without constantly being outraged, aggressive, intolerant and in some cases terrorist.
Ah, so can you provide the list of acceptable insults, for future reference? No. I think everyone else has covered it all.
Since you asked: One that comes to mind is "cheapskate". Not sure what just made me think of that one...
clutch needs to delete some posts out of mercy. Its truly quite pathetic watching ATC crumble. Just sad.
You have added nothing of any substance to any thread. At least Mathloom tries to argue and address points. You on the other hand are just wasting space.
