Eh... what's the use...? If I post 50 times more than I already post, then what, I'll end end up with as many posts as that Pinetree guy? I'll see what I can do... ------------------ "There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and STATISTICS..." - Mark Twain -
Nice exchange guys, learned a lot. As with Jeff, I especially liked DREAMer take on things, but many others too.
Whoa, there, Dreamster. That's a hell of a jump from thinking these circumstances are wrong to claiming I'm a saint. Please don't make that assumption for me. My point is that it seemed some didn't see this to be quite 'wrong' as I did (though some have detailed their disagreement since), whereas I have a hard time justifying anything about the situation. But you and I agree on the main point, I hope. That it's wrong - though I seem to consider it much more unacceptable than you? - but isn't necessarily a government's business to intercede. I'm a big believer in a person being responsible for themselves. To me, this is a sad, sad situation. You yourself admit the women seem 'brainwashed' in some ways. I think one of his wives was 13 when they were married, if I remember correctly. This is pretty sickening to me. But don't assume what I consider moral to relate to my belief in a person's rights. Legality and morality are far from the same thing. Rok ------------------ Proud Member of whatever Clutch City club is currently the most popular and/or controversial.
This isn't really true. Contrary to popular belief polygamy was NOT widely practiced in the early days of the Mormon church, at any time. True, it was practiced for a time, but only in very very special circumstances. In most cases, it involved a single mother who's husband had died for some reason (anti-Mormon sentiment, the Mexican War, disease, etc) who was struggling to raise her family. Remember, this was before food stamps. Times were hard, and some families were more well off than others. Mormons are very serious about morality, and family relationships are pretty much paramount, so it's definitely considered out of bounds to be living with someone in a pseudo-marriage situation if you're not legally and lawfully married. So in certain cases, (and this came from the Prophet of the church, and thusly, to a Mormon, from the Lord) men (and their wives) were asked to take another wife (wives in some cases) to help care for them, and their families, etc. This also allowed the women to have children, etc, which is really important to a Mormon family. (Mormons are like Catholics... lots of kids) When the Mormons finally settled in Utah, away from all the problems they had experienced in the United States, the need for polygamy became less and less, and naturally the number of plural marraiged diminished. Eventually it became apparent that they could not obtain statehood without officially abolishing it from practice in the church, but the truth is that is was really not very prevalent at all at the time. The reason for the resistance was largely based on fighting for the PRINCIPLE of rights. Basically a lot of the things that have been mentioned in this thread. They felt that it was within their religious freedom to practice polygamy if the need was there because the direction to do so came from the prophet and therefore ultimately God. But Mormons also believe strongly in upholding the laws of the land in which they live. The Mormons have 13 articles of faith, specific statements outlining there core beliefs. The 12th one states: 12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law. So whether the direction to end polygamy as a result of the law, or whether it just wasn't needed anymore (probably a little of both) was the reason for it's abolishment doesn't really matter. The fact is that the Mormon church had pretty justifiable reasons for the practice whether you accept their beliefs or not, and clearly, guys like this Tom Green are completely acting on their own stupidity. Anyone who attempts to practices polygamy for sexual reasons or "just to have another wife" or something like that has already violated the purpose of it in the first place. These southern Utah polygamists are all just delusioned... Hope that clears some stuff up... ------------------ "There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and STATISTICS..." - Mark Twain -
Darkhorse, I have no idea if you're a 'jack mormon' or not. But, why do you find Tom Green's viewpoint 'stupid'? Was Brigham Young also 'stupid', in your opinion? slcrocket's article also suggests that renouncing polygamy was a bigger deal for the church than you suggest. As an outsider, living in Utah, w/ several non-Mormon friends always belittling the LDS faith... let me just point out that I have become increasingly more tolerant of other views... be they LDS, Pastoralists in East Africa, whatever. It's enraging if I have an LDS friend around and someone's insulting them (I don't hang out w/ a friend of 10 years who followed me out here b/c of this reason). It's one thing to play devil's advocate and question practices and beliefs. It's certainly another thing to be dismissive w/ terms such as 'stupid', etc. I grant you this respect. Please do the same for the RLDS faith, or LDS polygamists or anyone else.
DarkHorse, That is the point, Green did not do it "just for sex and multiple wives." He does it because he said he was researching his religion's history (to help gain higher standing in the church, or something) when he realized how important it was. He felt that, in order to be closer to god, he should do the same as his religious icons (both in Mormon history and biblical). This would make his family more spiritual, etc. Apparently, there are a few such families who continue. ------------------ Squatting on old bones and excrement and rusty iron, in a white blaze of heat, a panorama of naked idiots stretches to the horizon. Complete silence-their speech centers are destroyed-except for the crackle of sparks and the popping of singed flesh as they apply electrodes up and down the spine. White smoke of burning flesh hangs in the motionless air. A group of children have tied an idiot to a post with barbed wire and built a fire between his legs and stand watching with bestial curiosity as the flames lick his thighs. His flesh jerks in the fire with insect agony.
