Great chart put together by Randy Van Gelder, but I'm not sure it comes to the right conclusion. I believe the Franchise will be the best point guard in the league next year (and for the next several years), but I think Jason Kidd's got the numbers right now. Although he lags behind Steve in points, he's got 10 dishes per game. That statistic alone is pretty impressive. They match up in just about every other category, too. ------------------
It is heavily weighted in some areas, but it does give a good example of just how valuble he really is. I think he should rank them 1-10, and give 10 points for first and 1 point for 10th, see where he comes out then. daDakota ------------------ If you like RTS games, check out this one. www.frontierwars.com coming soon to a PC near you.
I agree that the comparison is slightly biased; heck, it even leaves out one of the top PGs in the league in Darrell Armstrong. Factoring in numbers for him (while not adjusting the others), Darrell is right near the top of the pack with 34 points. I'll go analyze it and keep the same weights, but rank 1-11 and assign points that way to see where Francis ranks. While I don't think he's the best PG in the game now, he's getting close. I'll post results soon. ------------------
I went ahead and, per suggestion, created the chart of the 14 point guards based on a 1-10 scale. The rankings are slightly different (though Francis and Payton still come out 1-2), and I have posted the Excel worksheet at http://pegasus.cc.ucf.edu/~ace38618/PGComp.xls. Top 10...Francis, Payton, Brandon, Kidd, Stockton, Van Exel, Armstrong, Caseell, Miller, and Bibby. ------------------ [This message has been edited by mfclark (edited March 16, 2001).]
It is a nice chart and certainly involved some work, however, points should not be awarded on close statistical categories such as blocks. For example, Francis outscores Kidd 15-0 on blocks and only averages around 1/10 of a block more than him a game. Granted, removing blocks from the chart altogether, still keeps Francis in the lead, but the gap narrows. ------------------
agreed, not to mention, i can't fathom why blocks, steals and rebounds are deemed more important than turnovers, shooting %'s and shots attempted (except that it seems to greatly favor the younger, more atheltic francis). isn't the point guard's job to somehow put the rock in the rim? i always thought the best way to "grade" a point guard was to give him 2 points for each assist, add that total to his scoring average, then subtract his turnovers, and adjust for minutes. it too is flawed and unscientific, i realize, but better focuses on what, exactly, should be the point guard's top priority: putting points on the board. ------------------ Ric http://www.houstonprofootball.com [This message has been edited by Ric@HPF (edited March 16, 2001).]
You know what, forget what I said. You did all the work, and everyone else is just piling on with opinions. No matter how you slice it, you see that Francis is a very valuble player. I wonder how Cuttino would stack up against other 2 guards. DaDakota ------------------ If you like RTS games, check out this one. www.frontierwars.com coming soon to a PC near you.
it's a credit to randy's idea and hard work that it inspires comment, good or bad. and the graph, while i think somewhat flawed, is not without considerable merit, if, for no other reason, it gives you the opportunity to compare francis right down the line with the other top PG's. i certainly admire the effort and research that went into the project, and regret not saying so in my first post (i actually did intend to). i hope i at least wasn't coming off as knocking randy's considerable work. ------------------ Ric http://www.houstonprofootball.com
If anything, this illustrates that he is the best OVERALL point guard in the game! Didn't I post something similar on this before? (without the bells and whistles of course ) ------------------ Sometimes you gotta do the next best thing!
Ric, good point. I would weight assists more than 2 points. One basket (average) is probably worth like 2.5 points because of three point baskets and three point plays. Also, I would probably add a point for each steal and a point for each rebound. I know those categories are not top priority for PG's but in Steve and Kidd's case they play a major role in their game and are indicative of how versatile they are. Maybe even subtract a point for every missed FG (like a TO for a PG). I didn't have time to try them all out, but here is what I got.... The grouping is closer (SF isn't 150% better than GP) and also more similar to what I think is actually the ranking of the players. The formula could definetly be tweaked in a million ways. I would probably bump the importance of missed FG's which would knock Marbury down a few slots. Jason Kidd - 37.9 Gary Payton - 35.7 Stephon Marbury - 33.3 Steve Francis - 33.2 John Stockton - 32.9 Terrell Brandon - 31.0 Sam Cassell - 30.7 What formula did SI use a few years ago when they claimed Terrell Brandon was the best statistical point guard in the NBA?
With the heavy weight put on blocks, total rebounds, and offensive rebounds, it is not difficult to tell that this chart was made by a Francis Fan. I am sure a Kidd, Payton, or Brandon fan could also make a similar comparison showing their player to be the best. Oh yeah, good job! ------------------ "We messed with the Bull, and we got the horns." -- Larry Brown "quote" from AirBullard.com
