Does anybody know where to find updated plus/minus information on Rockets individual players? And, for that matter, players around the league? I've used 82games.com but they usually take awhile to update the information. I know the NBA box scores will give one game totals... but I'd like updated season totals. Thanks for the help!
http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus/plusminus_sort.jsp?pcomb=1&season=22010&split=9&team= ^^not sure if right link
You know I look at these stats and the stat dorks who usually argue with me over this have no explanation to me why the two guys in the positive have no playing time for the Rockets? Jordan Hill and Jared Jeffries.
What's to explain? Plus/Minu for a handful of minutes, taken on its own, tells you next to nothing about individual players.
So you think their positive +/- reflects the positive attributes they bring as far as size/defense/rebounds and isn't just random noise? Is that it?
Is there a stat on any site that measures the range of the plus/minus of a player versus the avg. plus/minus of the rest of his teammates. I think that'd be a great stat to show how much a player helps his team.
I am trying to support the argument of plus minus for the stat sake of many of the posters arguments for it. Hill and Jeffries yes through that assumption of this stat are clearly the best under this stat and Adelman is not playing them. Yet we are clearly throwing guys like Chuck Hayes and Battier in these same arguments. I think whats really the reason they have this skewed stat however s because their size effects the outcome of the time they are in the game and defnese and not this particular stat. It shows up here though.
Are you related to JC denton? How are you refering to this as if it's from last season? It's from three games. You can't possibly have had enough time to discuss this at length, and even if you did, why would you? It's like asking why one player didnt play more in one game based on his +/-. Plus/minus is created by the players, not the other way around. If coaches had the ability to know which player would finish with a higher +/1 at the end of the game, they'd probably play them more, but it doesnt work that way. It tells you more after the game for a player with sginificant minutes, or after several games for those getting less, so you can have a good sample size. I'm surprised that someone who has all kinds of advanced data at his disposal, which you claimed before, doesn't comprehend this.
No one is arguing for Shane Battier or Chuck Hayes to get more minutes because of their +/- in a handful of minutes. You seem to be completely ignoring sample size here.
82games gives you something similar: +/- when the player is on the court minus +/- when he is off the court. A simple way to calculate sort of what you're talking about is to just take the player plus/minus - team point differential.
Morey has these same stats. It hasnt translated into alot of playoff wins no. I see some stats and skew them with reality. Always mix stats with reality. Always mix basketball odds with basketball facts. I never judge on pure stats in basketball. If i did that would make Lebron better than Kobe all of these years. Tmac a HOFer. Robert Horry a scrub. Olajuwon not as good as Wilt Chamberlain. Its not always about stats. Its about substance. Something our GM and others have a problem seperating with from team to team that gets teams here who cant play up to the level of Championship contenders. There is another factor. I am not a stat guru as much as basketball fan. Everyone knows that for all of his stats Barkley is not better than Tim Duncan or Kevin Garnett either. The only problem? Although this kind of thinking can also skew people into believing in no stats allstars long after the stats do start to show a decline. Thats an eyeball test.
You skew them by applying them incorrectly. You're saying that if Jeffries finished +6 in 2 mins and scola -1 in 33 mins during one game, then the next game Jeffries deserves more minutes because he got a better +/-. I dont know if you're that ignorant or doing it on purpose, but you're definitely not using it the way it was intended to be used. And i'm still waiting for your advanced data that completely disproves +/- and other advanced stats. When can i see them?
A. Varejao Cavaliers 4,625 -4,114 511 Here you go. Anderson Varejao last year number 3 in the league last year in plus minus. Completely puts a hole in at least the validity for all player who play alot of minutes. Above such noted players as Kobe Bryant and Kevin Durant. i cant completely disprove the theory but put huge gaping holes in any argument you give me. There are always anomolies. Always half truths in basketball.
That's because he was a very valuable role player on the best regular season team in the league last year. Like you said -- got to mix stats with reality. That doesn't mean completely ignore stats. It means context matters, always.
I could agree with you in that way. Only at some point in that same category no Rockets player is in the top 50 for a 42 win team. Yet such notable juggernaughts like Ronny Turiaf of the hapless Knicks is sitting at number 28 only followed by such notable players as Zaza Pachilia for the entire season last year at 29. No Rockets.
Actually thats this year. Alot of weird anomolies for both years. Just meant some players played with first unit players who made the team better. at the time they were on the floor in some instances.
Are there any players that played next to Varejao that could have helped his +/- stat? Just curious... One player in particular comes to mind, and it's not Mo Williams.
