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On Webb

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by rimrocker, Nov 8, 2006.

  1. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    What, exactly, did you answer multiple times, basso? I haven't seen you realistically address the staggering defeat of your President and his political party at the polls, yet. I've heard some mumbo-jumbo divorced from reality. Are you just so stunned that you can't process it? That's how you're coming across to me. I'm a little disappointed. I had hoped that you might find, somewhere within yourself, the ability to take defeat with graciousness, like halfbreed, and accept that the American people just massively repudiated your guy, his party, and his agenda.

    Do you just think that the vast majority of Americans were deluded yesterday?



    Keep D&D Civil.
     
  2. basso

    basso Member
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    i expressed myself at length, and pretty clearly here, sorry if it wasn't what you wanted to hear.
     
  3. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Oh, I saw that. A lot of bitterness, and not an ounce of graciousness in defeat. Not surprised, just disappointed.



    Keep D&D Civil.
     
  4. basso

    basso Member
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    your reading comprehension skills need some work.
     
  5. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    you were gracious to say you were angry at democrats for doing nothing for 6 years to earn the victory. the democrats will spend the next years masturbating politically is gracious?

    you feel the bitter obstructionist despair characterized by the democrats.


    Your first post sounds like a suicide note. Way to be gracious.
     
  6. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    Gracious means different things to different people, how do you know that is not how Basso writes when he is being gracious? :eek:
     
  7. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    James Webb has got your class warfare right here...
    ____________

    Class Struggle
    American workers have a chance to be heard.

    BY JIM WEBB
    Wednesday, November 15, 2006 12:01 a.m. EST

    The most important--and unfortunately the least debated--issue in politics today is our society's steady drift toward a class-based system, the likes of which we have not seen since the 19th century. America's top tier has grown infinitely richer and more removed over the past 25 years. It is not unfair to say that they are literally living in a different country. Few among them send their children to public schools; fewer still send their loved ones to fight our wars. They own most of our stocks, making the stock market an unreliable indicator of the economic health of working people. The top 1% now takes in an astounding 16% of national income, up from 8% in 1980. The tax codes protect them, just as they protect corporate America, through a vast system of loopholes.

    Incestuous corporate boards regularly approve compensation packages for chief executives and others that are out of logic's range. As this newspaper has reported, the average CEO of a sizeable corporation makes more than $10 million a year, while the minimum wage for workers amounts to about $10,000 a year, and has not been raised in nearly a decade. When I graduated from college in the 1960s, the average CEO made 20 times what the average worker made. Today, that CEO makes 400 times as much.

    In the age of globalization and outsourcing, and with a vast underground labor pool from illegal immigration, the average American worker is seeing a different life and a troubling future. Trickle-down economics didn't happen. Despite the vaunted all-time highs of the stock market, wages and salaries are at all-time lows as a percentage of the national wealth. At the same time, medical costs have risen 73% in the last six years alone. Half of that increase comes from wage-earners' pockets rather than from insurance, and 47 million Americans have no medical insurance at all.

    Manufacturing jobs are disappearing. Many earned pension programs have collapsed in the wake of corporate "reorganization." And workers' ability to negotiate their futures has been eviscerated by the twin threats of modern corporate America: If they complain too loudly, their jobs might either be outsourced overseas or given to illegal immigrants.

    This ever-widening divide is too often ignored or downplayed by its beneficiaries. A sense of entitlement has set in among elites, bordering on hubris. When I raised this issue with corporate leaders during the recent political campaign, I was met repeatedly with denials, and, from some, an overt lack of concern for those who are falling behind. A troubling arrogance is in the air among the nation's most fortunate. Some shrug off large-scale economic and social dislocations as the inevitable byproducts of the "rough road of capitalism." Others claim that it's the fault of the worker or the public education system, that the average American is simply not up to the international challenge, that our education system fails us, or that our workers have become spoiled by old notions of corporate paternalism.

    Still others have gone so far as to argue that these divisions are the natural results of a competitive society. Furthermore, an unspoken insinuation seems to be inundating our national debate: Certain immigrant groups have the "right genetics" and thus are natural entrants to the "overclass," while others, as well as those who come from stock that has been here for 200 years and have not made it to the top, simply don't possess the necessary attributes.

    Most Americans reject such notions. But the true challenge is for everyone to understand that the current economic divisions in society are harmful to our future. It should be the first order of business for the new Congress to begin addressing these divisions, and to work to bring true fairness back to economic life. Workers already understand this, as they see stagnant wages and disappearing jobs.

    America's elites need to understand this reality in terms of their own self-interest. A recent survey in the Economist warned that globalization was affecting the U.S. differently than other "First World" nations, and that white-collar jobs were in as much danger as the blue-collar positions which have thus far been ravaged by outsourcing and illegal immigration. That survey then warned that "unless a solution is found to sluggish real wages and rising inequality, there is a serious risk of a protectionist backlash" in America that would take us away from what they view to be the "biggest economic stimulus in world history."

    More troubling is this: If it remains unchecked, this bifurcation of opportunities and advantages along class lines has the potential to bring a period of political unrest. Up to now, most American workers have simply been worried about their job prospects. Once they understand that there are (and were) clear alternatives to the policies that have dislocated careers and altered futures, they will demand more accountability from the leaders who have failed to protect their interests. The "Wal-Marting" of cheap consumer products brought in from places like China, and the easy money from low-interest home mortgage refinancing, have softened the blows in recent years. But the balance point is tipping in both cases, away from the consumer and away from our national interest.

    The politics of the Karl Rove era were designed to distract and divide the very people who would ordinarily be rebelling against the deterioration of their way of life. Working Americans have been repeatedly seduced at the polls by emotional issues such as the predictable mantra of "God, guns, gays, abortion and the flag" while their way of life shifted ineluctably beneath their feet. But this election cycle showed an electorate that intends to hold government leaders accountable for allowing every American a fair opportunity to succeed.

    With this new Congress, and heading into an important presidential election in 2008, American workers have a chance to be heard in ways that have eluded them for more than a decade. Nothing is more important for the health of our society than to grant them the validity of their concerns. And our government leaders have no greater duty than to confront the growing unfairness in this age of globalization.


    Mr. Webb is the Democratic senator-elect from Virginia.

    http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110009246
     
  8. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    Say what you want about Webb, but he's no shrinking violet... and could Bush have handled this in a way less like a petulant king...
    _____________

    In Following His Own Script, Webb May Test Senate's Limits

    By Michael D. Shear
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Wednesday, November 29, 2006; A01

    At a recent White House reception for freshman members of Congress, Virginia's newest senator tried to avoid President Bush. Democrat James Webb declined to stand in a presidential receiving line or to have his picture taken with the man he had often criticized on the stump this fall. But it wasn't long before Bush found him.

    "How's your boy?" Bush asked, referring to Webb's son, a Marine serving in Iraq.

    "I'd like to get them out of Iraq, Mr. President," Webb responded, echoing a campaign theme.

    "That's not what I asked you," Bush said. "How's your boy?"

    "That's between me and my boy, Mr. President," Webb said coldly, ending the conversation on the State Floor of the East Wing of the White House.

    Webb was narrowly elected to the U.S. Senate this month with a brash, unpolished style that helped win over independent voters in Virginia and earned him support from national party leaders. Now, his Democratic colleagues in the Senate are getting a close-up view of the former boxer, military officer and Republican who is joining their ranks.

    If the exchange with Bush two weeks ago is any indication, Webb won't be a wallflower, especially when it comes to the war in Iraq. And he won't stick to a script drafted by top Democrats.

    "I'm not particularly interested in having a picture of me and George W. Bush on my wall," Webb said in an interview yesterday in which he confirmed the exchange between him and Bush. "No offense to the institution of the presidency, and I'm certainly looking forward to working with him and his administration. [But] leaders do some symbolic things to try to convey who they are and what the message is."

    In the days after the election, Webb's Democratic colleagues on Capitol Hill went out of their way to make nice with Bush and be seen by his side. House Speaker-elect Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) sat down for a lunch and photo opportunity with Bush, as did Democratic leaders in the Senate.

    Not Webb, who said he tried to avoid a confrontation with Bush at the White House reception but did not shy away from one when the president approached.

    The White House declined to discuss the encounter. "As a general matter, we do not comment on private receptions hosted by the president at the White House," said White House spokeswoman Dana M. Perino.

    Webb said he has "strong ideas," but he also insisted that -- as a former Marine in Vietnam -- he knows how to work in a place such as the Senate, where being part of a team is important.

    He plans to push for a new GI bill for soldiers who have served in the days since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, but not as a freshman senator. He has approached the Democratic leadership about getting senior legislators to sponsor the bill when the 110th Congress convenes in January.

    A strong backer of gun rights, Webb may find himself at odds with many in his party. He expressed support during the campaign for a bill by his opponent, Sen. George Allen (R-Va.), that would allow concealed weapons in national parks. But an aide said this week that Webb will review Allen's legislation.

    "There are going to be times when I've got some strong ideas, but I'm not looking to simply be a renegade," he said. "I think people in the Democratic Party leadership have already begun to understand that I know how to work inside a structure."

    His party's leaders hope that he means it.

    Top Democratic senators, including incoming Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) and Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.), had invested their money and prestige in Webb before he won the party primary in June. His victory was also theirs, but now they have to make sure he's not a liability.

    "He's not a typical politician. He really has deep convictions," said Schumer, who headed the Senate Democrats' campaign arm. "We saw this in the campaign. We would have disagreements. But when you made a persuasive argument, he would say, 'You're right.' I am truly not worried about it. He understands the need to be part of a team."

    One senior Democratic staff member on Capitol Hill, who spoke on condition that he not be identified so he could speak freely about the new senator, said that Webb's lack of political polish was part of his charm as a candidate but could be a problem as a senator.

    "I think he's going to be a total pain. He is going to do things his own way. That's a good thing and a bad thing," the staff member said. But he said that Webb's personality may be just what the Senate needs. "You need a little of everything. Some element of that personality is helpful."

    Webb has started to put himself out front. On "Meet the Press" last week, he dispensed with the normal banter with host Tim Russert to talk seriously about Iraq and the need for economic justice in the United States.

    He announced yesterday that he has hired Paul J. Reagan, a communications director for former governor Mark R. Warner (D) and a former chief of staff for U.S. Rep. James P. Moran Jr. (D-Va.). It will be Reagan's job to help his boss navigate the intricacies of Washington and Capitol Hill without losing the essence of his personality.

    "The relationships he has built over his long career will serve me well," Webb said in a statement yesterday.

    Virginia Gov. Timothy M. Kaine (D), who campaigned hard to get Webb elected, said yesterday that the first-time officeholder doesn't have the finesse of most experienced politicians.

    "He is not a backslapper," Kaine said. "There are different models that succeed in politics. There's the hail-fellow-well-met model of backslapping. That's not his style."

    But Kaine said that Webb's background, including a stint as Ronald Reagan's Navy secretary, will make him an important -- if unpredictable -- voice on the war in Iraq.

    "There are no senators who have that everyday anxiety that he has as a dad with a youngster on the front lines. That gives him gravitas and credibility on this issue," Kaine said. "People in the Senate, I'm sure, will agree with him or disagree with him on issue to issue. But they won't doubt that he's coming at it from a real sense of duty."

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/28/AR2006112801582_pf.html
     
  9. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    careful there Mr. Webb...

    I'm sure it's hard to vote on bills from Gitmo.
     
  10. Major

    Major Member

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    I love this quote! :D
     
  11. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
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    I gave money to Webb during the primary and the election. I really hope he keeps his rough edge. We need many more Senators and Reps that place substance over smarm.
     
  12. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    i supported the idea of going into iraq at the time. i'm ashamed of that, now.
     
  13. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
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    It takes courage to admit you were wrong.

    I remember a while back, after you had started to become disenchanted with Bush, you replying to me that you were still glad that Bush was president on 9/11, instead of Gore. I'm curious- Do you still feel that way?
     
  14. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    man, i don't even know anymore. i have no idea how gore would have responded. and truth be told, i've supported candidates on both sides of the aisle for years, and been disappointed by virtually every one of them.
     
  15. basso

    basso Member
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    excuse me? bush sought him out and asked about his family and webb responded in an ungracious manner. no big deal, but where do you get that bush was a petulant king?
     
  16. Achilleus

    Achilleus Member

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    "How's your boy?" Bush asked, referring to Webb's son, a Marine serving in Iraq.

    "I'd like to get them out of Iraq, Mr. President," Webb responded, echoing a campaign theme.

    "That's not what I asked you," Bush said. "How's your boy?"

    "That's between me and my boy, Mr. President," Webb said coldly, ending the conversation on the State Floor of the East Wing of the White House.
     
  17. Achilleus

    Achilleus Member

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  18. bronxfan

    bronxfan Member

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    i disagree with much basso has said in the past, but he is right in that IMO there was nothing in the article that puts bush in a "petulant king" mode.

    only thing is that perhaps bush knew that webb was avoiding him and specifically sought him out to goad him into a confrontation - but i really doubt that. i agree that he likely was being social and not "petulant".
     
  19. Colt45

    Colt45 Member
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    By pouting about Webb exposing him for the fraud that he is. As if W would give a dman about Webb's son if Webb hadn't b****slapped "macaca" earlier this month.

    Bush tried to score political points. Webb completely, utterly and totally rejected and humiliated him. Predictably, Bush reacted petulantly.

    "Ungracious". Yeah, basso, it's not like he told him to "F*** off".
     
  20. basso

    basso Member
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    wow! your reading comprehension skills must be far more developed than my own. i didn't get any of that!
     

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