On Race

OK, I guess the elderly go first....

1. The only stereotypes I sometimes believe in are political, not racial.
2. I have been exposed to all different races/ethnic groups throughout my life.
3. I was raised to respect all races, ethnicities, religions & cultures, and I still do.
4. I have no problem with interracial dating or marriage, nor do I have a problem with the children of interracial marriages. One of my closest friends is the child of an interracial/inter-ethnic marriage...her Dad is African-American, and her Mom is Vietnamese. They met and married while he was a GI during the Vietnam War.
5. Never promoted racism, but I've experienced plenty of anti-Semitism in my lifetime. All of it was the result of pure ignorance, IMHO.
6. Race relations are not good at the present time.
7. I do not understand this question. Why are there different races? The evolution of the human species, perhaps?
8. The "melting pot" is not an unattainable or bad goal. It just takes people moving past ignorance and towards understanding.
9. I feel fine about my religion. I feel OK about my "race", except when I sometimes read ignorant letters in the op-ed section of the Houston Chronicle.
10.. Whatever else...GO ROCKETS!!

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"Blues is a Healer"
--John Lee Hooker

 

I just had to throw this in there:

My mother's cats are racist SOBs. She adopted 2 cats at about relatively the same time to add the grand spanking total to 5 cats. Well the cat's accepted the white cat fine and dandy, but not the jet black one. No joke. What's up with that?

Damn them! I don't pet racists!

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snap crackle pop

 

Crisco, maybe they're just superstitious.

I think interracial children are fine, in theory. But, one of my best friends growing up was interracial (white father, black mother). He experienced the problems of growing up African-American (racism, discrimination) while lacking the ability to identity himself with that community (or be fully accepted by either ethnic group). He overcame it, but I don't know that I would want my child to bear that burden when he or she is growing up.

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In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.

 

1) Im not real stereotypical, but I joke about most stereotypes. But I will not be afraid to say a person fits in a 'stereotype'
2) Ive had good, ive had bad. I base it all upon how I meet people.
3) My parents didn't care, so my brothers and I used to use a lot of racial slurs.
4) I can't say much, because i would date other races. Its not wrong if you really like the other person, but nothing disgusts me more when its done in dispite because the parents don't want them to.
5) ummmm me and my brother were calling a couple young kids 'niggers' and their parents came yelling at us ... their older brother, our age but much bigger, who would not hesitate to kick our ass didn't care the least bit.
6) I used think they were not that bad. But i recently move to Louisana and most people down here have no respect for black people. I used to not care if people were some what racial, but its gets old when they use '******' over black, when in fact, these people are 'niggers' by defination.
7) The Tower of Babble in the bible? Regional evolution? Add more 'spice' in the game of life.
8) The Middle East has proven the racial tension has existed since the beginning of time. So I do not think this is attainable, unless of course ,people get along with eachother.
9) It doesn't make me any better, but I know it gives me an advantage and i can get further.
10)

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its all good and fun till someone gets hurt ... then its absolutely hilarious!

 

Race is a culturally created concept really. Humans genetic DNA sequenes, nd how these genotypes express themselves in phenotypes, are facts. The way people then interpret those physical features, however, is purely opinion. Think about the differences between the US and Brazil. IN America, especially since a early 20th century Virginia courtcase proclaiming this to be true, if you even have "one drop of black bloood/ancestry" in you you are considered to be black. This definition has obviously grown out of our tradition of slavery and racism and has resulted in relatively few breeding between whites and any shade of black.
In Brazil, though, its grouped differently. There lighter-skin blacks are treated much differently, and they breed with the white skinned people freely, but not with the heavily dark skinned.

Or think about geographic boundaries. The Africans in South Africa, for example, have less in common physically with those of North Africa than Italians or Spaniards do, yet they are both considered African while Spaniards and Italians are considered Europeans.

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1. I believe in no stereotypes. Stereotypes are merely things that people have observed, but they are not definitive of any community.
2. I grew up in SC. My nanny was African American. She raised my grandmother and her siblings, my father and his siblings, my sister and I and our cousins. She was one of our matriarchs, so she was a very positive influence. I moved to Charleston in high school, and rather than the 45/45/10 percentage split several other minority groups split up the numbers (probably 35/35/30). I live in UT now, and there are 20,000 blacks in a state of two million people. I believe there are 350,000 or so Latinos.
3. My father wasn't racist, my mother was w/ her "I don't dislike black people, but I just don't want you to marry one" sort of logic.
4. What's there to think about it. If you love someone, be with them regardless of racial issues.
5. give: Anything that I ever promoted has long been repressed deep into my mind.
receive: I got a few odd looks when I was working in Atl last year...
6. They're better... but people hang out w/ people that are like them so it's never going to be perfect.
7. People left Africa and the melanin became a luxury too expensive to produce.
8. Melting pot unattainable: Only in the areas of the US where hate is a religion. Vancouver's metropolitan area seems to balance everything perfectly.
9. What is there to think about my own race?
10. Nice that you could show up Crisco!


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Good night everyone, Canadian or American. Just remember that we're all bound together by basketball, the internet and the mullet.

(My attempts at trying to sooth over an international incident).

 

1. I try not to believe in any. I have friends of particular ethnicities who will make jokes about people of their own race or even tell me things that they consider cultural, not sterotypical.

I don't see harm in understanding who you are as a race or an individual as long as no one else holds you back because of it. If I was black and liked soul food, that might be considered a stereotype but it doesn't make me any less of a person. That's the big difference.

2. I've been around all races my whole life. Music and travel around the world as a child has helped me to interact with all different kinds of people. I've played music in bands where I was the only white person in the band or the only person who spoke English in the club. It is a great experience.

3. My father's side of the family is unabashedly racist. I hate it and my loathing for it has always made me respect people of different ethnicities more. Growing up, the last thing I wanted to be was a white kid. My heroes were Bruce Lee and Dr. J.

4. Whatever works best for the families is fine with me. I've known LOTS of people who came from interracial marriages. If the family loves one another, I don't care what they look like.

5. Yup. When I was a small child and still too stupid to know any better, I regurgitated some racist (and homophobic) crap. By the time I was 11 or so, that began to end because my friends were black, asian, hispanic and white.

6. I wish.

7. Mother nature works in funny ways. We develop what we need based on where we live. If I lived in the middle east for centuries and wandered the desert, I'd have a hell of a tan too!

8. Probably unattainable in terms of our view of it. It will work itself out over time, but not by us forcing the issue. People cannot be forced into changing their minds. It took over 200 years for people to think blacks were more than just animals. It will take just as long to accept race as a part of everyday life.

9. About the same as I feel about my gender - good at times, not so good at others. I'm happy to be who I am, but the lack of tolerance can be very frustrating at times.



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"You know what they say about the music business. Here today, gone TODAY!

- Chris Rock at the MTV Music Video Awards

 

1. What stereotypes do you believe/sometimes believe?


I don't believe in whole race stereotypes, but I do believe in some group stereotypes (e.g. a small percentage of whites are white male elititests or racist white trash and a small percentage of blacks are militant white haters). I still believe these groups are the exception rather than the rule though.


2. What has been your exposure/experience to different races (creating positive or negative feelings)


In my younger years I went to all black school districts (I'm half-white/half- Vietnamese). I also had lots of friends from several different races.


3. How were you raised in regards to this issue - have your opinions changed from that upbringing?


My father is a little bit of a closet racist, but doesn't let it show. My mother thinks Asians are inherently superior, but all of her friends and her present boyfriend are black (my parents have been divorced for years), so I don't know if this is racism or national pride.


4. What do you feel about interracial dating/marriage. Interracial children?


I'm cool with it being an interracial person myself.


5. Ever promoted/experienced any form of racism? (either the giver or receiver, basically)


Yes and yes. I used to receive racist treatment a lot when I was young being the only white kid in my school. Of course this was only from a few people and I did have lots of friends. I have also been guilty of exchanging racist jokes in the past with friends, but then I have never been politically correct.


6. Are race relations good now?


Yes.


7. What is your understanding of why there are different races?


I'm not sure what you're asking here If you mean what are the origins of the races, I'd just have to say it has to do with evolution and adaptability to different climates.


8. Is "The Melting Pot" an unattainable goal? A bad goal?


I don't know. Racial harmony is a great goal, but maintaining diversity is also important. I once heard an analogy that the goal of America shouldn't be changing everyone to be one thing like a melting pot; rather the people should be more like a tossed salad. Each maintaining their individuality while coming together to make the whole better. Okay, I know that probably sounds a little lame, but I kind of like it.


9. How do you feel about your own race?


I'm cool with. I consider myself to be Vietnamese, but really follow the American culture. I never lose any sleep really ever thinking about it.


10. Whatever else...


Let's broaden this topic and address sexism too. I don't believe that the sexes are equal in every way, but I do believe they are equal overall. There are simply some things each sex can do better than the other and it all balances out in the end. I also know the difference between a strong woman and a b!+ch, just like I know the difference between an aggressive man and an @$$hole.


I also never really understood why men force their women to take their names in marriage. This just seems to imply a natural superiority of the male family name, which I just don't buy into.


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[This message has been edited by Launch Pad (edited February 20, 2001).]

 

I don't know there are any stereotypes that I believe. I've met too many people who defy any stereotype to even consider believing any stereotype was true or universal.

I grew up in Amarillo, which is pretty lilly white compared to places like Houston or D/FW. And Amarillo was fairly segregated when I was growing up. There were only two African-American families that lived in my neighborhood (and we had some African-American students at school who were bussed in from the other side of town). So, my exposure to African-Americans was very limited.

Unfortunately, this lack of exposure probably shaped my early views in a bad way. I remember in elementary school, we had one African-American student, and he was a jerk. I kind of remember thinking of this student as representative of all African-Americans and since I didn't like him, I didn't really like black people (it wasn't an overt thing, but I remember my thoughts of other African-Americans when I saw them was initially one of dislike). Once i got to Junior High, which had a larger African-American student population (and I moved to a new neighborhood after sixth grade, into the neighborhood with the two upper-class African-American families), I realized that just because that one kid from elementary school was a jerk didn't mean that his entire race was a bunch of jerks.

On the other hand, Amarillo's Hispanic population is relatively large (well, like 9%, but that's large enough for me to have more exposure to Hispanics), and from the get-go, I knew many different Hispanics. Heck, my Dad's partner in his medical practice was Puerto Rican (who married a white woman) and his son was my best friend for a time. Because of that early exposure (and later exposure in school, etc), I never thought of Hispanic people as being any different than I am.

Of course, Amarillo has virtually no Asian population, so my experience with Asians was limited, as well. But because the one Asian kid in elementary school was nice (we were actually good friends during elementary school, but he moved away before Junior High), I never developed any bad feelings toward Asians and never thought they were any different than I was (and my friend from elementary school really wasn't any different than I was. We liked the same things. We lived in the same neighborhood, etc. We just looked a little different.)

My mother is very concerned with race relations. Perhaps it was because she grew up in the '50s and '60s when integration issues were at the forefront and race relations were changing drastically in the South (she grew up in Arkansas). She always tried to teach me not to stereotype people or treat them any differently because of their race or what-have-you. She was always trying to get across to me that everyone is essentially the same regardless of the color of their skin.

My Dad treats everyone the same, but he never overtly tried to impart any lessons to me about equality and all that. I guess he led by example. (Mom led by example, too, but she also did the other stuff).

This never has bothered me, probably because the interracial marriages I knew of predated my birth. When Dad's partner has always had a white wife, or when the white guy across the street has always had an Hispanic wife, you don't think of it as wrong.

Not that I can recall. I've certainly never been on the receiving end of racism. If I ever was the "giver" of racism, it was inadvertant. Sometimes we react in ways we aren't really aware of, and that could be perceived by another person in a way that we don't necessarily mean.

They certainly could be better, but I think there has been significant progress made. The journey is not anywhere near complete, and we all need to keep striving to make race relations better.

Natural selection.

Like every other race, there are good white people and there are bad white people. I don't think of us as a whole because we're not an autonomous unit. We're a collection of individuals who happen to share a genetic trait.

Sometimes I get angry at what some white people do, but I still consider them individuals when they do those things. I don't feel guilty as a white person because of it.

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Houston Sports Board
The Anti-Bud Adams Page

 

Well, see. I misinterpreted your post and assumed you were saying we were all wrong to answer the question the way we did (solely in terms on genetics without regard for anything beyond that).

I guess I was just trying to point out that we weren't denying that there are issues beyond genetics that impact the way we think about race, only that the question was vague enough to be completely answered by the genetics issue alone.

But it doesn't matter. I get what you were saying now. (I just don't like to be told I'm wrong when I don't think I am, and I thought that you were saying that since I didn't answer the question beyond the genetics factor that my answer was wrong or incomplete. But since you weren't saying that, forget what I said before).



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Houston Sports Board
The Anti-Bud Adams Page

 

rimbaud: I could never be diplomatic enough to start this thread in a manner that could generate responses. I'd probably just kill my own thread. Thx for taking a stab at the subject.

ps: I have an abridged version, too, if anyone wants it. lol!

Racial harmony is tolerance manifested in freedom of expression

I am a racist by many definitions, for my use of language. Yet, I love racial diversity. How is that? I have a strong thirst for exploring diversity, because I have a strong thirst for the richness of language. The richness of any language is found in its complexities, and that is where race (ethos) is found. Without freedom of expression, we may never know racial diversity, much less find racial harmony.

1. I used to struggle with the question of stereotypes. I thought they were the most evil thing. Then I realized all the good stereotypes that exist, and how helpful they are in expression. Now I believe all stereotypes are true, exist, and are useful.

Stereotypes are a form of expression, and there is nothing innately wrong with using language. I believe the stereotype, "Whites are smarter than Blacks", yet it has little meaning to me, because the word "smart" carries cultural significance often ignored by such stereotypes. I believe the stereotype, "Blacks are more social than Whites", and use it to refute the definition of "smart" in the previous stereotype. Both stereotypes impart meaning, and say more about the user of the stereotype than the racial subjects.

So "believe" is not the way I look at it, nor is "right" or "wrong". I believe all stereotypes exist, just like all words exists, however defunct they may now be. I believe stereotypes are useful expressions. Stereotypes go well beyond race, anyhow, since they can encapsulate anything. I may not like being stereotyped myself, but how is a stereotype any worse than someone using more blunt instruments like..."I don't like you or your friends." Besides, let's not forget the positive stereotypes. Stereotypes are words with complex meanings, and are extremely useful forms of expression that often get to the heart of understanding, for good or bad, once used.

Stereotypes are rich uses of language (part of common oral traditions of using anecdotes and metaphors), but like anecdotes and metaphors, people have complex (and personal/community) attachments to these forms of expressions, thus I try to understand them from several angles. I find the biggest difference between races/cultures (if you were to sum it up in a BBS sentence) is the difference in choice of expression and the different triggers of passionate expression. My feelings regarding this stem from my belief that children attach experience to language early on, thus they attach emotions to language as well. Suppressing expressive language like stereotypes, suppresses emotions and individualism. Worse still, by suppressing expression, you suppress learning by taking away discourse that uses common oral traditions. Language becomes distilled by contrived, accepted expressions and connotations. A cultural Melting Pot becomes a language Distillery!

rimbaud, I have a follow up question to #1:

Question 1a: Try replacing the word "stereotype" with "metaphor" and see if your have the same answer. If not, why?

2. Not enough. Spending time with people from different races/cultures never leaves me with negative impressions. Really, why would it. Everyone is an individual. I try to understand each as individuals and learn how they use language to express their lifelong experiences. Unfortunately, racial barriers, whether real or perceived, prevent free flow of experiences between races, because we share the same language, but not the subtleties of usage. Thus, misunderstanding often abounds. That is what creates negatives in me. Not the race, but rather individual unwillingness to tolerate difference.

If I were to pinpoint negative feelings in a stereotypical way, I would say the Majority in any scenario generally shows the least tolerance. The white majority in particular, rarely even talks about tolerance of expression.

3. I was raised in a class manner, a bourgeois manner. My opinions change as I learn more about others.

4. Irrelevant. But may I add that sex was stereotypical spicier across races, until I learned that was superficial compared to the spiciness of love.

5. Sure. Both giver and receiver. In fact, I think we all have, unless you are a bubble boy. Of course, I'm taking your "any form" qualifier to mean anything another person might consider racism. I not only think in racist terms, but I will use them. Mostly I throw racial remarks at my own race, because I have a better understanding of when they can achieve what I'm after. In HS and the Army, when I was around other races enough to share experiences with various individuals, I didn't shy away from racist discussions. In several forms, it can do some good. I don't expect too many people to understand this. Basically, if you ever find yourself "thinking" in racial terms, why not answer rimbaud's in the affirmative. What is wrong with that? It is a natural manifestation of language.

I accept this fact, because I believe racism is rooted not in skin color, religion, class, or lifestyle difference, but in experiences. Racism is a word, just like everything else. If you learn how different people view that word and "all its forms", you cannot deny you have experienced racism.

What is wrong with a word? (Rhetorical question.) My interensts are getting past the words and look at the passions behind their use. This is my biggest contention, and I cannot do this justice in one paragraph. I know there are many arguments about our some words in any context are just "wrong". I would agree. My point is, if you look at passion words illicit from both the giver and receiver, it becomes clearer what those words are, and why racism has different forms.

6. No. However, I do believe America is a very mature country in dealing with race.

7. Allow me to expand this to Ethnic groups. People develop communities. Communities allow people to share experiences. Overtime, the shared experiences shape advanced use of language (anecdotes, metaphors, similes, stereoptypes, etc). Language usage, as the main vehicle of expression, becomes a strong identifier of community, and thus ethnic groups. So, shared experiences can define ethnic groups, and manifest themselves primarily in language.

With that belief, I love all ethnic groups, because I equate it with learning more about language. Skin color is irrelevant. But, of course, to extend this discussion I would eventually have to hear the nature-vs-nurture argument. ugh!

8. Both unattainable, and a bad goal. Shared experiences melting into one pot is sad. Diversity teaches us more, and tolerance gets us there.

9. I experience racial intolerance at surprising times, and often in some racially bonding manner, or at least a venting manner where I'm supposed to listen and nod or something. I hate intolerance, because I equate it to practiced ignorance. Someone assuming I share that same intolerance at any level, is pedestrian presumption and borderline offensive. Someone telling me they hate the NBA, because of its image of gangsters, tatoos, and criminals, and assumes those are facts I agree with is wrong. Someone then playing the intolerance game with me and saying my use of "big ass black guy" evokes intolerable connotations, does wrong to my experience. Having those views is not wrong, but projecting them onto others is.

I am convinced all races suffer intolerance. Others have expressed similar experience within their own race. It would exist no matter what race I was part of. So I can take solace in that it is not really a problem with race, but rather individual choice and acceptance. That leads me back to tolerance--which is an individual choice. It is easy. I choose to be tolerant by default, and make judgement only when I better understand an individual's motives.

 

1. I must admit to relying on stereotypes in forming opinions about different racial, religious, and ethnic groups. But everyday I try to learn more about others and remain open to different ideas and perspectives.

2. Until I went to college, I wasn't exposed to a lot of different people. Of course now, with that exposure and maturity, I see the wisdom and benefits of exposure.

3. My family was typically American - racists in denial. No, we weren't the Klan or even the Black Panthers, but there were definite opinions formed and shared in our house about people based solely on the color of their skin, cultural differences, etc., which is the definition of racism.

4. I don't have a problem with partners in or children of interracial relationships, and wish them all the best.

5. I can remember the first time I was called a "******". I was at nursery school, and two little boys decided to repeat what they heard many times at home about African-Americans. I also remember the rage in my mother's voice when I shared this little tidbit of info with her at home, and me being removed from the nursery school the next day. You see, the owner of the nursery was those little boys' mother. Otherwise, there has been the occassional purse clutching, not getting on elevators if I'm already on, being followed in a department store, etc. But the one thing that used to irk me most was the condescending, subtle questioning of my intelligence, especially when I worked part-time service-oriented jobs while in college. But then again, as I stated earlier, I'm not innocent of racist sentiment either. Ironic, isn't it?

6. Could and should be a lot better. But, from an African-American viewpoint, just 40 years ago it was basically illegal to be African-American, so things are obviously getting better.

7. Environmental differences and evolution.

8. I too prefer the "salad bowl" analogy. "Melting pot" equates to assimilation which I view as the oppression of different cultures and opinions. "Salad bowl" equates to the respect and appreciation of differences.

9. I am very proud of the accomplishments of African-Americans and feel privileged to be African-American. Feeling proud of who you are is the first step towards the lessening of negative perceptions towards others based on differences.


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Who's better: Kelvin Cato or Joe Barry Caroll?

Take your time!

 

I'm not sure rimmy... it may have been because I was consulting. People generally loathe consultants when it's implied that the salaried employees aren't getting the job done.

I went out of my way to be cordial to one particular man b/c of the 'anti-consulting' sentiment that people oftentimes have. This particular guy never spoke to me, and in 3 mos. of working I never saw him address another white employee.

Perhaps the fact that I couldn't isolate any other reasons for him to ignore me (he was just an *******, or I had a big boogie on my upper lip) makes me a racist... I don't know.

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Good night everyone, Canadian or American. Just remember that we're all bound together by basketball, the internet and the mullet.

(My attempts at trying to sooth over an international incident).

 

Let me just reiterate on question 7.
Race does not come directly from natural selection or evolution as most here seem to think. The genetic, and thus, physical differences, do come from evolution. Race, however, is how we categorize those differences, and as such is subject to opinion and cultural biases.

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It was a vague question, though. Why are there different races? That can be answered a number of ways.

Of course, I won't argue the point because your point is correct. Anthropologically, there are only three "races" (I think). In this sense, white people and Hispanic people, for example, are the same race. And how we categorize those differences can be an issue.

But the question, as asked, was "why are there different races" and the natural selection/genetics angle is as valid an answer as anything. The fact that people have these differences are caused solely by genetics. Dark skinned people aren't drak skinned because I classify them a certain way. And my interpretation of the question was "why are people different", not "why are people classified in the ways that they are"

Just because you interpreted the question differently than others doesn't mean that the answers others gave are not completely valid.

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Houston Sports Board
The Anti-Bud Adams Page

[This message has been edited by mrpaige (edited February 20, 2001).]

 

I don't remember any of us claiming to not be lame.


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Houston Sports Board
The Anti-Bud Adams Page

 

I didnt say anybody was wrong. I even pointed out, as you further mentioned, that the physical differences ARE because of the genetic differences.

I just think its important, especially in the context of the original questions asked, to be aware of the cultural biases behind the notion of race. Nearly every other question rimbaud asked---sterotypes, experiences, melting pot, race relations, interracial marriages, etc,etc deal with ones experiences and own interpretations of those experiences. I think, in light of trying to understand those individual interpretations it might be more useful to think of race in its cultural terms in this situation. For the most part, the fact that evolution/natural selection occurrs doesnt really shed much light on the rest of this discussion.


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