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ObamaCare in Trouble

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by OddsOn, Jul 23, 2009.

  1. OddsOn

    OddsOn Member

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    Call your congressman and senators and tell them you are strongly against this health care bill and any other of its kind that moves personal choice away from the people and puts the government in charge. The government works for us not the other way around...


    ObamaCare in Trouble

    By KARL ROVE

    Polls are turning against President Barack Obama’s health-care plan. The political calendar is, too.

    On Monday, the Washington Post/ABC poll reported that 49% of Americans approve of his handling of health care while 44% disapprove. What many people missed is that those who strongly disapprove of the president’s approach on health care now outnumber those who strongly approve by 33% to 25%. That presages further decline. Already, 49% of independents disapprove of the president’s approach, up from 30% in April, a staggering shift in 11 weeks.

    Mr. Obama is also slipping on the economy. Those who strongly disapprove now outnumber those who strongly approve of his handling of the economy (35% to 29%), of deficits (38% to 19%), and of unemployment (31% to 26%). On Tuesday, Gallup showed Mr. Obama’s personal approval was 55%, down from more than 60% a few weeks ago and lower than the 56% George W. Bush had at this point in his first term.

    The polls are crumbling because of a flood of bad news about Mr. Obama’s health-care proposals. One batch of such news came from a July 17 study by the Lewin Group that was commissioned by the Heritage Foundation. It projects that if the House bill becomes law, 83.4 million people—nearly half of those with private coverage—will lose private insurance as employers drop their plans. Mr. Obama’s promise that you can keep your plan is being left on the cutting

    Another batch of bad news came this week as Democratic governors from Colorado, Tennessee, New Mexico and Washington joined GOP colleagues at the National Governors Association summer meeting to blast the administration for plans to shift millions of families into Medicaid. That could stick states with $440 billion in new costs over the next decade.

    But the most damaging news came from Congressional Budget Office (CBO) Director Douglas Elmendorf, who said last week that the White House’s health-care proposals would not “reduce the trajectory of federal health spending by a significant amount.” This shattered the central claim Mr. Obama has been making: that his health-care plan controls costs. In a July 17 letter, Mr. Elmendorf added that the House’s health-care bill would result in a “net increase in the federal budget deficit of $239 billion” over 10 years. That’s likely a low-ball estimate because it assumes that Congress will increase taxes by $583 billion over the next decade.

    Ways and Means Committee Chairman Charlie Rangel says he’ll pay for the Obama health proposal by raising taxes on Americans making $280,000 a year ($350,000 for couples). Most of those stuck with higher taxes will be small business owners. Even Democrats don’t like that approach: 21 of 39 freshmen House Democrats penned a letter opposing the tax hike. Many are among the 66 Democrats from districts that either Mr. Bush or John McCain carried in recent presidential elections. Mr. Obama shrugged off the letter by saying that the surtax would only force some to pay “a little bit more.”

    The Democratic National Committee is now running ads pressuring Democrats to vote for the president’s health-care plans, including new ads in the districts of House Ways and Means Committee Democrats who have raised questions about the health-care bill. It is hard to think of a more obvious sign of weakness than attacking members of your own party.

    Team Obama was rushing to pass health care before the August recess out of fear that allowing members to go home for an extended spell before voting on the bill would give them an opportunity to hear from their constituents. They fear that the 300 protestors who showed up at a town hall meeting in Panama City, Fla. held June 30 by Democrat Rep. Allen Boyd shortly after he voted for the cap and trade energy tax) are only the start of a larger backlash.

    Democratic leaders, including the president, are now backing away from a vote on health care before August. But that’s not likely to decrease voter angst. Americans for Prosperity and others are already organizing voters to attend public meetings with members of Congress this summer. My guess is that members of Congress are about to hear a lot from their voters on the government takeover of health care, new energy taxes, the failed stimulus, record deficits, and growing joblessness.
     
  2. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Yes Please!

    Do this so your congressman can laugh at the ignorance that you just displayed.
     
  3. Northside Storm

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    good thing criminals are given equal footing in this nation

    On an unrelated note, I hate big gouvernment. BUT, public-private health care makes sense. A change from the current status quo is long overdue. Obama might not have the best idea, but if you're going to oppose any bills of this kind intended to change the current system, then good luck getting shafted by market forces.

    The American system is mediocre and broken. That has to change.

    As for people who trust corporations over governments, always remember that corporations can move at will and have no vested interest in serving any nation; if America and her people were to prove themselves unprofitable, most corporations would be gone like SNAP. The gouvernment has to stay here, if only because it is a parasite that gouges the nation...and thus has a vested interest in keeping the nation alive.
     
  4. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    How about supporting something as everyone agrees that we have to address the train wreck of our current system? I know it's hard.

    How about Ron Wyden's proposal, which has a lot of bipartisan support? Oddson? Or has Karl Rove written anything about it recently? ;)
     
  5. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    The Senate came out and said they will not meet Obama's deadline of getting something done before the August recess.

    He can't even convince members of his own party to get this bill approved. That's how left-wing this thing is. Whatever happened to bipartisan leadership? What a joke.
     
  6. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Member

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    Away from the "people?" Hilarious. People aren't in charge of the choices. Big business, money grubbing insurance companies are.

    You're a sucker.
     
  7. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Yes! Call your congressman and tell them to tell republicans to quit lying about Healthcare reform!

    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Cc9dRP2iKuM&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Cc9dRP2iKuM&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
     
  8. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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  9. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    I dunno Batman, I had this choice earlier this year, after eleven years of full-time employment and a (very lucky) excellent health record:

    * greatly increased premiums out of my own paycheck, with an even greater cost to my employer to insure me.
    * plus greater co-payments on visits and any prescriptions
    OR! (please read with excitement)
    * decline health insurance coverage? (can I even do that?)

    When I did need health insurance assistance recently, for my back, and I went through all the steps of having my GP recommend a licensed physical therapist so that I could avoid surgery, my choice was:
    * send in all the proper forms for reimbursement and never receive
    a single penny in return, thus paying for my entire recovery out of
    pocket,
    OR! (please read with excitement)
    * send in all the proper forms for reimbursement and never receive a single penny in return, thus paying for my entire recovery out of pocket!

    GREAT HEALTH INSURANCE CHOICES I CURRENTLY HAVE!

    And my friend on the same plan whose wife was diagnosed with breast cancer earlier this year? He had the following amazing choice.

    * Have the insurance company decline to cover her emergency tumor biopsy, since it wasn't pre-approved with 90 days notice.
    OR! (please read with excitement)
    * Spend 10 hours on the phone arguing with various levels of the insurance company monster to have them cover 40% of his wife's emergency biopsy!

    GREAT HEALTH INSURANCE CHOICES HE AND HIS WIFE HAVE!

    Let's please leave this system alone! I want my premiums to double again over the next decade and to have to spend more time wrangling with insurance companies on the phone as part of their business model. Yum yum!
     
  10. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    The moderate Democrats are holding this up, not the Republicans. If every Democrat voted yes, then this bill would have been passed already.... just goes to show you out out-of-the-mainstream this bill has become... Obama can't even bring his own party together. Forget about reaching across the aisle.

    This plan is all about rationed care, higher costs, a bigger deficit, and greater government intervention in our lives. Think about it, friends, the government can't come within TWO TRILLION DOLLARS of balancing its own budget. How in God's name do you expect them to bring healthcare costs down? It's an outrageous argument with zero credibility -- just ask the non-partisan CBO.
     
  11. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    By KARL ROVE
    _____

    lol --> FAIL
     
  12. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    We have the votes in the house.

    In the Senate it's passed markups in two of the three major committees it has to go through. I believe finance is the only one still working. Reid (who I still think is a weasel) believes there's still a chance at some bipartisan agreement. I think that is a joke. I actually agree with you. Forget about reaching across the aisle. Pass with or without republicans. In the end, the democratic votes will be there.
     
  13. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Except you don't. If you did, this wouldn't be stuck in Committee.
     
  14. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    we'll see
     
  15. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    If you had the votes, we would have already seen. You lied.
     
  16. wakkoman

    wakkoman Member

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    Any opinion on the CBO's analysis of the current bills concluding that they would increase federal spending on health care without effectively reducing costs?
     
  17. Southern Select

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    In spite of having access to the best health insurance and fanciest hospitals, white people are passionate about the idea of socialized medicine. So much so that they have memorized statistics and examples of how for-profit medicine has destroyed the United States.

    But before you can exploit this information for personal gain, it’s important that you understand why white people are so in love with free health care.

    The first and most obvious reason is “they have it Europe.” White people love all things European, this especially true of things that are unavailable in the United States (Rare Beers, Absinthe, legal mar1juana, prostitution, soccer). The fact that it’s available in Canada isn’t really that impressive, but it does contribute to their willingness to threaten to move there.

    These desires were only heightened in 2007 when Michael Moore released “Sicko,” a documentary that contrasts the health care industry in the United States with that of Canada, France and Cuba. As a general rule of thumb, white people are always extra passionate about issues that have been the subject of a Moore documentary. As a test, ask them about 9/11, Gun Control, or Health Care and then say “where did you get that information?” You will not be surprised at the results.

    But the secret reason why all white people love socialized medicine is that they all love the idea of receiving health care without having a full-time job. This would allow them to work as a freelance designer/consultant/copywriter/photographer/blogger, open their own bookstore, stay at home with their kids, or be a part of an Internet start-up without having to worry about a benefits package. Though many of them would never follow this path, they appreciate having the option.

    If you need to impress a white person, merely mention how you got hurt on a recent trip Canada/England/Sweden and though you were a foreigner you received excellent and free health care. They will be very impressed and likely tell you about how powerful drug and health care lobbies are destroying everything.

    Though their passion for national health care runs deep, it is important to remember that white people are most in favor of it when they are healthy. They love the idea of everyone have equal access to the resources that will keep them alive, that is until they have to wait in line for an MRI.

    This is very similar to the way that white people express their support for public schools when they don’t have children.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    Uh, who has the best health insurance? Not me, my family or my friends, and it's supposedly "among the best plans available." What a joke.

    I hate it and can go rank and verse for why it is deplorable and on a completely unsustainable course.
     
  19. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    How is the new plan going to be better? Tell me that. How much will you pay? What services will you get? GUESS WHAT! you can't answer those questions. Before anyone thinks about passing any of this pile of crap, tell me EXACTLY how its going to work and how much its going to cost.
     
  20. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Member

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    You're an ass. Who in the hell repped you? They're an ass too.
     

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