No Cheers for Columbus, Says Venezuela's Chavez Sat October 11, 2003 04:21 PM ET CARACAS, Venezuela (Reuters) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez urged Latin Americans on Saturday not to celebrate Columbus Day, saying the 1492 discovery of the Americas triggered a 150-year "genocide" of native Indians by foreign conquerors who behaved "worse than Hitler." "Christopher Columbus was the spearhead of the biggest invasion and genocide ever seen in the history of humanity," the populist president told a meeting in Caracas of representatives of Indian peoples from across the continent. Columbus Day on Oct. 12 is celebrated as a holiday in the United States and several Latin American nations, but Chavez said it should be remembered as the "Day of Indian Resistance." "We Venezuelans, we Latin Americans, have no reason to honor Columbus," he added. The Venezuelan leader said Spanish, Portuguese and other foreign conquerors had massacred South America's Indian inhabitants at an average rate of roughly "one every 10 minutes." He described Spanish conquistadors like Hernan Cortes and Francisco Pizarro, as "worse than Hitler." He said even the continent's geographical names, like America and Venezuela, were imposed by foreigners. Chavez's opponents, who are seeking a referendum to try to vote him out of office, say his self-styled "revolution" in the world's No. 5 oil exporter is aimed at installing an anti-U.S. communist system like the one in Cuba. Chavez says his brand of left-wing nationalism will make Venezuela more independent. The Venezuelan leader hailed as heroes Indian chiefs who had fought against the invaders, such as Guaicaipuro who resisted the Spanish founders of Caracas, and American Indian chief Sitting Bull, who defeated U.S. Gen. George Armstrong Custer at the Battle of Little Bighorn in 1876. "Long live Sitting Bull!" Chavez declared, drawing applause from his audience, many of whom wore traditional native clothes and head-dress http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=3598199
Don't be ridiculous. Might makes right? That *is* very Hitler-esque. Do we yawn at any atrocity if there is a clear victor? I don't see the point in glorifying a man who enabled the butchering of millions of people and enslaved many more. Fine. The man 'discovered' the Americas. My history teacher demonstrated the act of 'discovering' America. He took my book bag and asked me what he'd just done. "You stole my bag", I said. "No, I discovered it, ' he replied. It's time students in the US were told the truth about Columbus instead the nice little nursery rhyme of "In Fourteen hundred and ninety two...." Blackfish
A) Lance Au Meadows. B) Columbus was wrong in almost everything he ever did, except he was one of the greatest natural mariners the world has ever known. Aside from that his calculations were waaaay off ( even most others of his time...who knew the world was round...knew his calculations were very short, as they were. THAT was why the Italinas turned down funding him, NOT because they thought the world was flat, vast historical misconception.) C) " To the victors go the spoils"!??!!?!?!!? DD...considering we're talking about the extermination of millions...and much of it, by the way, achieved NOT through warfare, but through treachery, deceit, disease, and tactics we would today term 'terrorist'...that's about as ignorant a statemtn as I've ever seen in here. Blown away. Callous, insensitive, and uninformed. Weren't you among those praising the US for ridding the world of Saddam Hussein's regime? Has nothing on the Conquistadors, etc. Seriously disturbing, if not disturbed. I can see people saying it was a long time ago...or some other weak yet defensible stance...but to the victor go the spoils? How archaic.
Thanks for the post, Zion. It's easy for Americans to forget that our path to global dominance is paved with the dead bodies of countless millions. Its "discovery" is no different. I don't blame South Americans for refusing to celebrate its holocaust. If I were Venezualan, I'd do the same.
Just to clarify. Yes, they knew the world was round, that dates back to the Romans, however, for a long time they thought that all of the continents were at the top and if you ventured too far down the side you would fall off. That somehow combined with things such as the Bible talking about the "four corners of the earth" to create the historical misconception being taught in school that everyone thought the earth was flat. Great bunper sticker DaDa: "Slavery: to the Victor Goes the Spoils!" The great thing about it, though is that it doesn't have to be just for slavery, it can be for genocide, murder, Iraq-Kuwait-esque invasions and any other situation where weak can hurt strong.
Not really by the time of Columbus...the Portugese, among many, had detemined that it was the circumpherence that it is, and basically just thought that there was no Americas between Asia and Europe, thus making it too far to travel by sea. There was some superstition about falling by Coumbus' time, but not at all among scholars. Not to mention that the records of Brandan the Navigator and the Vinland Sagas already recorded travel beyond 'the edge'... The only reason Columbus had the courage to go when others weren't was because he miscalculated, and thought Asia was within traveling distance.
I am thankful that Columbus established an oft-traveled route across the Atlantic (he didn't really discover America, not even for the Euros, since the Vikings had come long before). If he had not, there would be no America (no Canada either, for you America isn't the best country types .)
To the victor the spoils Dakota, when talking about the extermination of tens of millions of Native Americans. Hopefully in your desire for a macho bumper sticker short one liner, you weren't thinking. If someone ever made such a statement about the Holocaust, (Yawn) they would forever be branded a hopeless anti-semite. While it is true the genocide and conquering of the Indians happened several hundred years ago to completely dismiss it's importance (yawn) is despicable.
Glynch, I am native American you putz ! My Columbus reference is a humbug to a non issue. What year did all that happen again? Maybe we should pay reparations? Nothing to see here, move on ! DD
I wasn't talking about then...just why the myth has been able to survive. That is why I said "just to clarify" as opposed to "I disagree" etc.. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
DaDakota, completely unrelated to this thread, and I am sorry for this brief excursion, but you have had this signature forever and I am still trying to understand what point you are trying to make with it ...
In all seriousness, it was disease, not purposeful genocide that killed much of the Indians. And although the means were dreadful (enslaving the Indians and slaughtering them like animals) the ends were pretty good. We are the greatest country in the world thanks to a combination of Western Civilization plus the bountiful resources of the promised land. The destruction of certain civilizations and the replacement of them by superior ones is a natural part of the world order. Does anyone cry for the Hittites, Sumerians, Babylonians, ancient Egyptians and Phonecians who were largely wiped out by means of war and absorption into the conquering population? Of course not.
On to the topic at hand.... My point is why are we wasting time worrying about atrocities committed to people long dead for hundreds of years. Meanwhile the same people soooooo concerned about those long gone atrocities are unwilling to stand up to stop those committing similar atrocities today... See...Saddam, or Kim...etc...etc.... I guess it is much safer to sit on the sidelines and wonder what could have been different 400 years ago, or 140 years ago etc....etc.....rather then REALLY dealing with the issues at hand today. Action......action........we want action ! Worrying about Columbus day, and things that were committed to people 400+ years ago.....what a joke !!!!!!! DD
I am not saying the USA are not a great country, but I hear this statement pretty often here on the BBS (e.g., from you or DaDakota) or by President Bush or others, so I would like to ask you a question: What exactly are you basing this statement on - first part, and I am sure you can tell me a lot of things why the United States are a great country with which I will fully agree - and, second part of my question - which countries are you comparing it to, based on either what you have learned about these countries or based on personal visits to these countries? To be clear about my personal opinion on this, I find it pretty presumptuous, and yes, even arrogant for anyone from any country to say his country is the greatest, or even greater than any other country (as you might have guessed, this is why I am posing the question). In fact, this kind of thinking has, in my opinion, contributed to many wars. Even though I like my country, I would never say that Germany is a greater country than another country (except probably when it comes to arguing about soccer ), if only simply because I find it silly, counter-productive and basically impossible to measure how "great" a country is compared to another one. I find it fine to say "my country is a great country", but saying "the greatest country" just does not sound right, and I think this attitude is part of what rubs many people in the world the wrong way. Now, to quote "El Conquistador" Trader_Jorge (and bamaslammer, I only mean this jokingly): DEFEND YOURSELF!!
Unfortunately no....I am planning my move for early '04... Enjoy your stay - but try and leave some of those Catalan model chicks for the rest of us
