6 years is to long..........I love the Mooch, but I dont feel he`s worth a 6 year contract, especially when its guaranteed
I'm very, very glad Moochie is back with the Rockets!!! Moochie is a high energy, true point guard (ie a distributor of the ball) who fits this team like a glove and made alot of clutch shots for us. IMO, in no way shape or form does Moochie compare to Matt Maloney. Moochie is capable of everything Matt could do and then so very much more. I've also got no problem with the length of his contract. Would you want to negotiate with Fegan again in 3 years? I applaud Les and C.D. for hanging in there and doing what it takes to bring back a player that I felt (and Steve Francis himself said) was instrumental to the teams success. I think this is really GREAT NEWS for the Rockets!
I agree Will...ths is WAY too much money and WAY too long of a commitment to a guy who plays 8-10 minutes a game. I saw the Knicks make the same type of commitment to Ward and Childs (both better players then Mooch at the time of their signing) and they have regreted it ever since. If this is official, then Mooch himself is officially untradable. What happens with Damon Jones? Also, you can't compare this scenario with that of Maloney's. Albeit, we paid Maloney way too much...at least he was a starter and played 30-35 minutes a game.
The analogy doesn't seem to fit. Maloney was overvalued because of his fit in DIT. Norris maybe overvalued b/c of the three guard lineup, but if called upon, he'd make a decent showing as a fill-in starting pg. Or if Francis decides to go to DC in a few years, Moochie offers some sort of stability. That being said, if Moochie has the same agent 90 days from now, I hope that he's traded.
I'm going to have to disagree with Will and the other naysayers. Moochie is worth every bit of that contract...and more. Yes, it's true that this is a lot to pay for a "backup" point, but moochie could start on quite a few NBA teams, and these would be very attractive terms to these teams. We just have to go in with the right attitude. We have to realize that Moochie's value to us might be greater in a future trade than it is to us as our backup point guard. Don't fall in love with him, 'cuz he may not be here for six years...or even one, but be happy that we just signed such a valuable trade commodity to such attractive numbers.
This is too good to be true. I've spent years waiting for something to disagree with Pole about. Here are my questions: 1. Does anyone here think Dan Fegan hasn't spent the past several months shopping for a team that would give Moochie a contract of this magnitude? 2. If any team had offered to give Moochie this kind of contract, do you doubt for a minute that we would have heard about it? 3. If a ball-busting, burn-up-the-phones agent like Fegan couldn't get any other team to pay Moochie this much in a straight-up signing, do you think Carroll Dawson could get a team to pay Moochie this much as part of a trade for something valuable?
I think it all depends on how much is guaranteed before you can bash the contract. Besides, he will still be tradable after 2-3 years.
Ditto to Will's comments....and as far as being able to start on quite a few NBA teams... Atlantic... Philly..no Orlando..no Knicks..no NJ..no Miami..possibly Wash...debatable Boston..perhaps Central.. Milwaukee..no Indiana..no Chicago...maybe Toronto..no Charlotte..no Detroit..maybe Clev..no Atl..no Midwest... Hous..obviously not San An..no Dallas..no Den..no memphis..no Utah..no Minn..no Pacific.. LAL..no Sac..no Phoe..no Port..no LAC..no GSW..no, not even them Sea..no That leaves Det, Chic, Mia, Wash and Bos...and all of those can be argued. That being said...Mooch could definitely NOT start for quite a few teams in the NBA...CBA maybe, but not NBA.
The only problem I have with this deal is that Fegan got a penny out of it, but you take the bad with the good. We're going to be over the cap for years, and this isn't my money, so I am totally unconcerned with the amount. And Moochie is young and tradeable, so I have no problem with the length. Aside from the Fegan factor, this is a pretty close to perfect deal in my eyes.
Mooch is not an especially tradeable commodity anymore. That's starting point guard dollars (or close to it) for a good backup, long term. I am very happy that the fro is back, because he fits in well here and seems like a nice guy. But CD got taken to the cleaners. Fegan gets over, again. If I was a decent but not great NBA player, that's the guy I'd pick to represent me.
Damn you Will! I have a job...it's not like I'm some journalist or something I have work to do, and I don't have time to go and do salary cap and stat research. (Thanks to NJRocket for narrowing down my search to those five teams...almost 20% of the whole league. I'd qualify that as a sizable number) So to answer your questions: 1: Doesn't matter, interested teams wouldn't have the cap space or a mid-level exception 2: No interested teams would have been able to give him this kind of deal. 3. Yes...but only time will prove me right or wrong.
More like 15%...and with the exception of Miami (who does have Anthony Carter and Eddie House who are both probably Mooch's equal in most people's opinion outside of Houston), all perennial lottery teams are included in that percentage.
No way Pat Riley would ever start Mooch. He's been priming Carter for years to take over that job, and anyway Moochie's defense isn't up to Riley standards (and Pat always picks defense over offense).
I've voiced my opinion on Moochie quite a lot, plus expressed my lack of concern for $2.88m since Stevie/Moochie combo evens it out by allowing us to pay only minimum for a SG backup. We will have the most expensive PG duo, but the league's least expense SG spot. It balances. What I really want to remind everyone, since some want to to say, "he's just a backup PG," is that Moochie played 20 mpg last year...not 6, not 8, not 12. <b>t.w.e.n.t.y. minutes per game</b> How do you get 60 mpg from one spot. He got 20 minutes when Francis and Mobley missed a combined 3 games, so those minutes are not skewed by injury starts. We had Shandon clocking many minutes at SG, and Moochie still did 20. You all do the math. There is a reason he got 20 minutes, beyond any standard player rotation logic. Some say that he couldn't start. But I don't compare him to any PGs except the ones who run transition very well. Moochie just streaks through transition defenses. Not all NBA starters can do that. That is what we need to play guard-oriented Rocket ball in the world of zone. Obviously, this is what Rudy is doing. There is a reason Moochie gets 20 minutes. In your evaluation of Moochie's value, you cannot make logic that ignores how he is used. That would be an argument for changing the offense. Don't combine an argument about changing our offense at the same time your are building an argument about Moochie's value. I ask that everyone measure Moochie's value according to how we use him. t.w.e.n.t.y minutes while Francis still clocked 40 minutes.
I think we got a good deal...Moochie is the balls, the sweat, the spirit, the funk, the guts of the entire organization (and soon the city ?)...that is priceless. Viva le Funk !
I agree with Crispee. I think he will be a key player at least this year until they change the rules again. Someone said the 6 years were guaranteed and I have not read this anywhere. Is it true all 6 years are guaranteed? Surely, CD learned something from the Maloney contract.
If 20 mpg is in fact true (which i assume you are correct), then it makes it a bit more palatable. But I just think we could get that production/minutes out of a guy like Damon Jones for a million if he was given the chance.
Jones can't run transition, relatively speaking to Moochie. He would disrupt the offense. All he would do is play minutes to rest Francis, and he'd line up weakside to watch other playmakers. This may indeed be a perfectly fine solution, especially if Francis starts playing 41-42 mpg....same with Cat, but my point is that Jones changes the offense. We'd lose our transition game whenever Francis sat, relatively speaking to how well Moochie runs it. Plus, we'd lose the 3 guard line-up that moves Francis to SG and Mobley to mismatch against slower SFs. Jones could not play that role of 3rd guard either, because he'd never run the point with Francis in the game. Fact is, we need a stellar transition/playmaking PG backup (a fast, attacking PG) in order to maintain our offense in the manner that Rudy is building it. You may not think that player is Moochie, but it's definitely *not* Damon Jones.
I think teams would be willing to pay the contract and trade us something if they didn't have the cap or exception room to get him on their own. That is the whole point of sign & trades anyways. So that is a bad assumption that no one else would make a trade with us. Besides, I think we are paying 2+ mill a year for the player and 1 mill a year for the fro. And I think we got the better end of this one! But, seriously, it looks like it is starting to come together.
