Cat, The difference is that you're pointing out one bad game or one bad statistic for a player. Yes, Francis only had 4 assists last night, but he scored 36 with 11 boards. He contributed in other ways. Anderson has had horrendous games, but he's also had several stellar ones like last night (and he's been far from immune to criticism). Hakeem is also 37 years old and about to retire, expectations for him are pretty low. Other than that one 17pt game, Taylor's been pretty bad every game. If Taylor was contributing in several other areas besides rebounding, then that would be different. His only skill is scoring and he's not really doing that. What do you consider to be the best 5 games that Taylor has played as a Rocket? ------------------
How can you expect him to score a lot when Rudy only plays him about 27 minutes and he doesn't get a lot of touches? I seem to remember games where Steve got around 6 points/4 assists (remember Boston?) but no one was on him. Shandon has gotten about .0000001% of the criticism Mo has gotten. Also, I don't see the relevance of these other areas. People look to one statistic on Mo: rebounds. These posters here could care less if he had 60 points- if he had say 4 rebounds people would be all over him. He's had good games in other areas. Believe me, those other areas mean nothing to 99% of these posters. Neither does watching him during the game. It's just everyone goes and looks for a box score and decides its time to blame everything on him if he doesn't rebound a lot. If they can single out one category on Mo (and they do it so clearly) I should certainly be able to use other players as examples to how stupid that logic really is. Also, Aelliott- I like Opening night vs. Minnesota (17), the game vs. the Lakers (10/8), the game vs. Vancouver (21), the game vs. Charlotte (17), and the game vs. the Pacers (14). ------------------ President of the Jason Collier fan club! Looking for next year's Jason Collier or Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
Sorry Cat, I'm with Aelliot if Mo was contributing in other ways i could live with his rebounding deficiencies. He scoring has been and mostly not much in the post, more jumpers and you say this is cause of limited minutes, well you could argue this is his own fault, one because he is not performing in those minutes, so why should he deserve more and the other reason is cause of foul trouble and that is he fault again cause he does not know how to play decent and legal defense. The other and more substantial problem with MO that leads to criticising his rebounding is he plays No D and I have also said this about most of the players on this team (actually I think there are plenty of posters who are sick of me doing this, so don't say i limit my criticism to Mo). So in essence he needs to find other ways of contributing to the team to make up for his rebounding deficencies...... Smeg ------------------ In 1993-94 Mugsy Bogues averaged more boards for the season than Mo is this season!!
Cat, here ya go : Francis : his turnovers have been criticized right and left on the board. The difference is that he does other things that make up for the fact his turnover rate is high. He is at least in the top 20 in the league in assists. Even if he did nothing else, he is averaging 19 pts/game. He gives us something. KT : I bash him as he is Mini-Mo. Hakeem : The guy is 200 years old. It's not like most of us were expecting anything from him, anyway. Shandon : Isn't scoring, but plays defense. We get something from him. Mobley : You gotta be kidding me. Mobley gets bashed for padding his stats in the 4th and being out of control and showing poor decision all the time on this board! The phrase "apologist" has become synonymous with his supporters. Despite all this, he scores, therefore we get something from him. Mo Taylor : We already know he can't rebound. But he was supposed to be able to score. Whether or not it's because of Rudy's system or not, I don't know, but when he doesn't score, we get nothing from him. If he could just do what any "normal" PF does and rebound 7-8 boards a game, we'd at least be getting something. ------------------ The $14 mil is back pay. Give me a break - Dream earned his salary this year, years ago. He deserves it. SamCassell in the Rockets 2000 : Game Action & Roster Moves forum
Good Call Dr The big difference with Mo Criticising is Mo does nothing special every fews games to save himself from the barrage. ------------------ In 1993-94 Mugsy Bogues averaged more boards for the season than Mo is this season!!
Taylor could score a ton too if he got the shots and minutes Cat and Francis do. Taylor could give you 20 every night if you wanted him to, but he doesn't get the opportunity. You can't bash him for not scoring like Cat and Francis when Rudy doesn't give him the opportunity. Shandon isn't playing defense every night either- I've seen a few swingmen blow by him this year in games he hasn't been focused. (more than last year) I'd rather have Mo back next year than Shandon... ------------------ President of the Jason Collier fan club! Looking for next year's Jason Collier or Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
Taylor could score a ton too if he got the shots and minutes Cat and Francis do. Taylor could give you 20 every night if you wanted him to, but he doesn't get the opportunity. Rockets don't need another guard, especially at the PF position. What the Rockets need is consistency, especially in defense, rebounding and a low post game wouldn't hurt too much. Screw jumpers and crossover dribbles. Save that for Francis. Gee I wonder why SA might not be focused? Shandon has shown a hell of a lot more than Mo so far. ------------------ snap crackle pop [This message has been edited by CriscoKidd (edited December 06, 2000).]
Taylor could score a ton too if he got the shots and minutes Cat and Francis do. Taylor could give you 20 every night if you wanted him to, but he doesn't get the opportunity. You can't bash him for not scoring like Cat and Francis when Rudy doesn't give him the opportunity Intesting take,let's see if the numbers back that up. Francis is taking 13.3 shots per game and scoring 18.6 pts/game. Mobley is taking 12.8 shots/game and scoring 17.4 pts/game. Taylor is taking 10.1 shots/game and averaging 10.3 pts/game. That means that Francis averages 1.4pts/shot, Mobley averages 1.35 pts/shot and Taylor averages 1.02 pts/shot. Taylor's scoring output per shot is about 75% of Mobley or Francis'. 1.02 pts/shot is not the numbers that you would expect from a so called "scorer". In fact let's compare Taylor's points/shot with Denver Power Forwards. McDyess checks in at 1.3pts/shot, Lafrentz is at 1.21 and Keon Clark is even higher than Taylor at 1.13. So that's three power forwards on the Nuggets that would outscore Taylor if given an equal number of shots. Now factor in that all three of those guys are better defenders, rebounders and shot blockers than Taylor. Just in case you're wondering, in Taylor's best season (last year), he scored 1.07 pts/shot. So, his output this year is almost identical to last year, he just not getting 15.9 shots/game this year. ------------------
FG's Attempted/Minute Played : Francis - .345 Mobley - .413 Taylor - .377 Taylor averages more shots per minute played than Francis. He's getting opportunities. You also may have the "chicken or the egg" syndrome with your argument. Is it because Rudy won't give Mo opportunities that Mo can't score more, or is it because Mo's a liability on the court that Rudy can't rely on as much as he may have thought? A liability that his offensive potential can't counter? ------------------ The $14 mil is back pay. Give me a break - Dream earned his salary this year, years ago. He deserves it. SamCassell in the Rockets 2000 : Game Action & Roster Moves forum
I don't buy either of those arguments for two reasons. First of all, I don't care for the "stats per a certain amount of minutes" comparisons. There's such things as getting into the flow of the offense, etc. that don't show up in the stats. Get back to me with comparisons when Mo is actually playing the minutes Steve and Cat average. But secondly, and more important, the word opportunities doesn't just mean how many shots per minute or things like that. For one thing, have you noticed how little Mo gets the ball in the post? If he were utilized better, he'd get the ball in the post more, where he could draw fouls and get to the line, where Cat and Steve get so many points. In addition, he would take easier shots that would give him a higher percentage. I've seen Mo isolated too many times towards the end of the shot clock in which he has to just throw up a shot as the shot clock is expiring. That's not Mo's idea. That's Rudy's and the team's. The definition of opportunity I'm talking about can't be determined by pulling up some stats. I'm talking about how they actually play on the floor. Rudy has not utilized all of Mo's strengths the way he has those of Steve and Cat. ------------------ President of the Jason Collier fan club! Looking for next year's Jason Collier or Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
Hold on a second... This is NOT a MO bashing thread. This is a Bashing Mo Bashing thread. Crisco, DoD and Aelliott are way outta line with jamcrackers true intentions. just because an enthusiastic college drafter like The Cat comes in to misunderstand jammies true intention, doesn't mean the regulars aren't going to get called for being a little left of left field here as well. Lay off The Cat. You guys are way out there, too. You want to talk about it....well, start another thread!! or I will sickMantronix on you.
HP, I know what Jammy meant. If you notice, I didn't post until Dakota, Mango, and Smeg started getting on Mo, and I thought he needed a little defense! Agreed on the last two posts though- Mo has enough threads where he gets bashed already. Don't turn this into another one! ------------------ President of the Jason Collier fan club! Looking for next year's Jason Collier or Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
I took his post literally and had hoped that jamcracker had seen the light about Mo. --------------------------------------------- The Cat and jamcracker, Eventually we will win both of you over, it just will take a bit longer than expected. Mango ------------------ Lets get the Mo Go working! Test Your NBA Trade Ideas 1. Put new topics in the proper forum. Things happening in the rest of the NBA 2. Use clear wording for new threads. 3. No duplicate threads 4. Conduct yourself as an adult. The Serious Police are watching. Donate Blood or be assimilated!
I don't see what the problem is. This is obviously what jamcracker wanted, a bunch of bickering. ------------------ snap crackle pop
I somehow doubt that! ------------------ President of the Jason Collier fan club! Looking for next year's Jason Collier or Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
I don't think Mo sucks, just like to stir up the kitty a bit, I have missed his heart felt defense of Mo. DaDakota ------------------ If Mankind evolved from Monkeys and Apes, then why are there still Monkeys and apes?
LOL, Mango. very nice. Crisco, I was really just trying to illustrate how irrational the Mo bashing has become. I DO like bickering, though.
