1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Miami vs Cleveland

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by Rocket River, Dec 25, 2007.

  1. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    65,496
    Likes Received:
    33,187
    Looking in the 3rd period here

    If the rockets got as many calls
    and
    non calls that cleveland is getting
    they'd be d*mn near undefeated

    They push in the back . . hacking Wade with no calls

    Refs make all the difference
    a few bad calls . .. and momentum in on your side
    they can then call it fairly again

    Rocket River
     
  2. RocketsMac

    RocketsMac Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,405
    Likes Received:
    0
    I hate the Cavs so freakin' much.. they always get special treatment because the NBA is trying to promote their sweetheart LeBron "overrated" James.. :mad:

    I think Rasheed was right when he said what he said about the Cavs and the refs.. I just really hate the fact that LeBron is getting all the hype just because he wears Jordan's number, dunks like a maniac, and does his homo hand move in the beginning of every damn game (when he is putting powder on his hands)..
     
  3. krnxsnoopy

    krnxsnoopy Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2005
    Messages:
    10,872
    Likes Received:
    1,552
    Yeah, what's up with that??

    Isn't that KG's thing? :confused:
     
  4. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    65,496
    Likes Received:
    33,187
    Refs and special treatment will make a good player GREAT
    It
    makes a great player virtually unstoppable

    If Yao got just the calls he deserves . . he would be fricking unstoppable
    Cause
    he gets hacked to hell all the time

    If the rockets got calls because of yao
    like the cavs get becauase of Lebron

    T-Mac would be unstoppable
    Battier would get a charge one every defensive play
    and
    Chuck hayes could sit on folx's back and average 15~18 rebounds a game

    Rocket River
    preferential treatment irratates me to no end
    Mainly i guess cause the rockets NEVER get it
     
  5. ai_111

    ai_111 Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    973
    Likes Received:
    3
    He isnt overrated. He deserves the respect that he gets.
     
  6. krnxsnoopy

    krnxsnoopy Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2005
    Messages:
    10,872
    Likes Received:
    1,552
    Yeah, it's hard to say Lebron's overrated. He definitely has got game. But I do HATE the way they officiate Yao. :(
     
  7. ghettocheeze

    ghettocheeze Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    7,325
    Likes Received:
    9,134
    Wow all the Lebron haters came out today. Why do you hate him so much? Cause he carried his team to the finals all by himself?

    I see a lot of people whining on this board from time to time about the refs being biased toward a certain team like the Cavs or the Jazz last year in the playoffs. Why? Some say cause the NBA is trying to push its poster child Lebron to national and global attention. Well if that is the case then how the hell do you explain the Spurs winning 4 championships even though they are a ratings nightmare? Why hasn't Kobe won a single series after Shaq left? The refs could at least get him to the conference finals to boost TV viewers but no nothing like that has happened. Also if this conspiracy was true then why in the world haven't the Rockets benefited from it? Cause Yao has a billion people dying to see him win a championship.

    Face it, there is no conspiracy or setup by the refs. Lebron James s just that good and can take over a game any time he wants.
     
  8. v3.0

    v3.0 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    16,203
    Likes Received:
    931
    Lebron maybe isn't overrated but WAY overhyped...
     
  9. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    47,008
    Likes Received:
    12,743
    This must be the whine and moan thread.

    LeBron and Wade are both great players who deserve the accolades they get. Unfortunately for LeBron, he is the only relevant thing about the whole Cavs organization and has born that burden since joining the league. Their front office is terrible and most of the other players aren't worth a dime. He should leave Cleveland so they can go back to being the bottom-tier franchise they usually are.

    Tracy unstoppable? Give me a break. :rolleyes: As long as he stops himself by jacking up stupid jumpers when he should attack the basket, there isn't anything the refs can do for him.

    Preferential treatment exists but the Rockets get their share of both the benefits and pitfalls. If Yao would go forward on his shots instead of fading away, more fouls would be called. If Tracy didn't play like the Tinman (no heart) and had an attacking, assassins attitude like Kobe, LeBron and Wade instead of abhorring physical basketball, he indeed would be unstoppable.

    This was a sorry game. A couple of plays were worth watching but it's just two bad teams playing each other. The yoyo Cavs came out with energy and then went flat like a tire, but the Heat are so bad they couldn't even get a 10 point lead. Like they almost always do at home, the Cavs made their big run. It was sad watching the Heat basically lay down.

    Unless they make a significant trade, the Heat aren't going to make the playoffs. The Cavs might make the playoffs but they haven't made ANY improvements vs last season to the roster or to their offensive scheme. The East has improved while they stood still. If Joe Dumars were the GM of the Cavs, they would win several championships.
     
  10. RocketsMac

    RocketsMac Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,405
    Likes Received:
    0
    this right here tells me that you can't think independently about the game and you rely solely on ESPN for your basketball knowledge. This is the biggest myth in the whole freakin' world.. seriously, "by himself"???, what do you call Z Ilgauskas? what do you call Pavlovic? what do you call freakin' Hughes? how about Gooden? D Jones? Daniel Gibson?? Donyell Marshall? Varejao?? they all suck? they're all a bunch of scrubs?? they don't exist??

    $hit, I would take that supporting cast any day over the Rockets supporting cast. The Cavs are a bunch of solid hard-nosed players that know how to play the game.. they got shooters, rebounders, post up players, and, Lebron.. I bet Joe Johnson and even Jason Richardson would've taken that team to the Eastern conference finals, the east is a complete joke, a freakin' college team can get the ECF if they want to.. the only real team the Cavs faced was Detroit, and hasn't it been for the officials totally messing up, Detroit would've easily taken care of them.. the calls LeBron got weren't even close, the were even worse than Wade's phantom fouls. Not only that, but he even got the calls in the end of games, so basically the officials decided the outcome of the games..

    so please, stop with all the "by himself" B.S, he didn't go the finals by himself, it takes 5, and a $hitty conference..

    who would they want other than the Spurs in the finals?? give me ONE team that would have significantly higher rating than the Spurs! who would they help? the Mavs? no one likes them or even cares about their homo team. Utah? no one has ever heard of them. heck, even Phoenix, despite being by far the most fun team to watch, common people don't really care about them.. at least the Spurs have Parker (Longoria's husband) and Tim Duncan who is pretty famous among regular people (people that don't follow the NBA like me and you for example).

    another thing; just because the Refs might help a team doesn't mean that team is gonna win 100%. San Antonio is a really superior team and it takes more than the refs to beat them. That's why I believe that a great team will still win despite the refs playing against them. see: 1994 and 1995 Houston Rockets. Hakeem used to get hacked more than Yao does right now, heck, Dream got hacked more than anyone in the history of the NBA and he never got the calls, but he was still able to carry his team and win 2 championships despite all the refs bull$hit.. that's what separates a good player from a legend..

    lol. as if Kobe is the most loved person in the whole world.. dude people (including me) hate Kobe, they hate that r****ded rapist and they wouldn't really want to watch his selfish a$$ jacking up 3's with 3 guys on him and with Sacha Viujicic wide-open in the corner.. "it gives the wrong message to their kids" :rolleyes: ..

    well, Yao's billion people will watch regardless, you really don't need the NBA to help promote Yao because like you said, he has an enormous number of fans..

    and once again, just because I believe the refs help LeBron (which is a fact) doesn't mean that I think refs screw up all the games and are a part of a league-wide conspiracy.. the NBA is just trying to promote their "new Jordan" and it's just as simple as that..
     
  11. RocketsMac

    RocketsMac Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,405
    Likes Received:
    0
    by the way, if you look at him closely, LeBron travels on almost every single play.. no kidding, every time he drives to the basket, he takes an extra step or shuffles his feet. He also changes pivot foot so often and he never gets called for it..

    here's an example of his "game winner" against the Wizards:
    <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/lhbM6uuCt74&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/lhbM6uuCt74&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

    <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/EGiBXYJiTF8&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/EGiBXYJiTF8&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>


    heck, even my 12 year old brother noticed the travel.. it's not even close, took 2 whole extra steps after coming to a stop, and the funny thing is, ESPN kept replaying it and admiring his greatness.. :rolleyes:


    now check this one out, he flat out takes 2 wide steps before even dribbling and he doesn't get called for it.. why call it? it would take away a top 10 highlight from ESPN's highlight reel.. :rolleyes:

    <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hH73R9GIbXg&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hH73R9GIbXg&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>


    now this one: #7 in the top 10 and a pivotal momentum-shifting play. LeBron simply adds a 3rd super wide step to his layup.. it's alright: it helps him with elevation and makes the highlight play better:

    <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/UBVvfYd9Wbo&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/UBVvfYd9Wbo&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
     
  12. Like A Breath

    Like A Breath Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2002
    Messages:
    1,746
    Likes Received:
    34
    I like how you show a couple of examples and says that he travels on nearly every play. He travels sometimes, but so does Wade and Paul Pierce. He certainly doesn't travel on nearly every play.

    Please...the rest of the Cavs are a collective joke. This "great" supporting cast went 0-6 without LeBron this year. Let me break it down for you and feel free to explain how these players are good.

    Big Z is an above-average center, good for around 14-8. He is LeBron's sole above-average teammate and his athletic ability slows the team down when he is on the floor.

    Varejao is a nice player, but is an energy guy who will give you 7-7. Probably the equivalent of a Chuck Hayes.

    Drew Gooden is a 12-9 guy who blocks no shots and is a poor defender. Average starting PF at best.

    Daniel Gibson averaged 5ppg last year until the playoffs. This year, he's been a great shooter but 13-3 is not what I'd consider a good starting PG. Again, another average-at-best starter.

    Damon Jones has averaged more than 7ppg once in his career. Can't play defense and can't really make plays.

    Donyell Marshall is in his mid-30's now and has shot 41% from the field as a Cavalier.

    Larry Hughes averages 10-2-2 on 32% shooting. He's never even shot 41% while with the Cavs. Terrible player.

    Sasha Pavlovic averaged a whopping 9-2-2 on average percentages last year and is shooting 35% this year. Another bad player.

    Please explain to me how LeBron has such a great supporting cast, I would love to hear it.
     
  13. RocketsMac

    RocketsMac Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,405
    Likes Received:
    0
    actually, he does travel almost every time he drives to the basket. The examples I showed were the ones that basically changed a whole game from a loss to a win and the other 2 were just so obvious that everybody noticed them. That doesn't mean that those are the only plays he traveled on.. try to actually watch him play before you go Stephen A Smith on me and hail the second coming of Michael Jordan.. LeBron takes an extra step on his layups so frequently that no one notices it anymore.

    yeah, of course they will go 0-6 without him, our Rockets have an atrocious record without Tmac and we have the luxury of a Yao Ming picking up the slack.. I am not saying his team is capable of winning without him, they simply can't because he hogs the ball the whole time AND he gets all the help from the officials.. I can bet you that if the refs consistently call the first step he takes before dribbling, he wouldn't be able to just blow by defenders and his average will go down at least 6 points.. his special treatment is just a joke..

    LMAO man, your silly breakdown of how "terrible" the players are is just hilarious..

    do you realize that outside of Tmac, only Yao averages double digit points on our Rockets team??

    now, do you realize that outside of LeBron, THREE freakin' cavs: Ilgauskas, Gooden, and Gibson average 14, 13, and 13 respectively?

    Larry Hughes, their worst player, averages more points that our starting PG: Rafer Alston..

    they have 2 guys that average almost 10 rebounds a game (Ilgauskas and Gooden), we only have Yao at 10, the 2nd leading rebounder is Chuck Hayes.. with 6 freakin' rebounds a game..

    do you realize that Gibson, Hughes, Gooden, Varejao, Pavlovic, Jones, Marshall > Head, Alston, Hayes, Scola, Battier, Bonzi, James, and Brooks?

    stop being an automaton to ESPN and NBA TV.. try to analyze the game of basketball yourself and come up with rational conclusions rather than repeating what those ANAL-ysts tell you about the greatness of LeBron and the weakness of his teammates..
     
  14. Like A Breath

    Like A Breath Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2002
    Messages:
    1,746
    Likes Received:
    34
    I'd call them a wash, considering Head would be Daniel Gibson on the Cavs, Hayes and Scola are comparable to Varejao, Battier is comparable(value-wise) to Gooden, Bonzi to Pavlovic, and the rest of them are negligible scrubs.

    Please consider that you are comparing LeBron versus TWO superstars, T-Mac and Yao. Of Course the "supporting cast" of the Rockets will average less points when you have two superstars. My point is that LeBron's supporting cast is comparable to the Rockets one even though he doesn't have the luxery of having a fellow superstar. To say that he has a good supporting cast when you just compared them to the scrubs on the Rockets isn't saying much.
     
  15. weslinder

    weslinder Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2006
    Messages:
    12,983
    Likes Received:
    291
    They let this go all the time at every level of basketball. I saw two Rice players get by with it last week at Lamar. That game was being televised by HoopInsider.com. I'm sure they were really worried about highlights. I've seen it happen at high school games with 100 people in the stands. It almost never gets called, because the officials have already turned their attention downcourt to be able to get there in time. They can't catch everything, and that's one of the most common calls that officials miss.
     
  16. RocketsMac

    RocketsMac Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,405
    Likes Received:
    0
    Head != Gibson.. not even close.. Head is a horrible, horrible, horrible player/ball handler/passer/slasher/driver to the basket.. he can only shoot lights out.. Gibosn isn't a one-trick pony and he can do more than just shooting..


    true, but the way I think of it is that on paper, LeBron + Ilguaskas is pretty close to Tmac + Yao.. notice that I said on paper because Yao is steps ahead of Ilguaskas, and I consider Mac to be better than James (when he wants to), but as of right now, the combined stats look very close:

    Tmac + Yao = 22 points + 21 points = 43 points
    James + Z = 29 points +14 points = 43 points

    Z and Yao have exactly the same FG%, and their rebounds, TO, and Blocks per game are fairly close to each other.. this of course doesn't mean that they are on the same Level, Yao is waaaaay ahead of Z in many areas of the game, but as far as stats go, that's how it looks like..

    withe the top 2 players from both teams balanced out, we compare the Rockets scrubs to the Cavs Scrubs, and we easily find that Cavs scrubs are unfortunately 10 times better than our dear Rockets scrubs, which is very sad considering the way the media try to refer to LeBron's supporting cast as "horrible" :(
     
  17. TeamUSA

    TeamUSA Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Messages:
    2,770
    Likes Received:
    5
    The first half officiating was horrible too. Too many bad calls against the Cavs that's why the refs maybe was paying for it.
     
  18. RocketsMac

    RocketsMac Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,405
    Likes Received:
    0
    true, I understand them letting a simple step before dribbling go.. but he took 3 wide steps for god's sake!! this would even be traveling on a freakin' layup, he took 3 steps before dribbling, WTF?? :mad:
     
  19. RocketsMac

    RocketsMac Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,405
    Likes Received:
    0
    this is the video that everyone should focus on.. this is the most frequently missed traveling call on LeBron.. he basically picks up his dribble, takes a step with his left, then a step with his right, then another step with his left, and goes up and dunks it.. yep, Left, Right, Left, dunk.. he does that so freakin' often that everyone is anesthetized to it.. the hilarious thing is, they actually focused on his steps in the top 10 highlights on NBA TV so it looked so clear..

    and you're telling me LeBron doesn't get special treatment??
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now