Should he get a stay of execution for the new evidence? Should he be executed now? Did the government screw up? Discuss. ------------------ http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets.
My answer is yes, no, yes. Didn't the last topic you started get shut down? Are you trying to instigate again? ------------------ Bingbong was set up, led to an untimely death in the prime of his life for no other reason than pure malice. Things like that do not go unavenged. Sometimes it spills out onto the field of play.
Well, maybe. Or maybe not. Prosecutors are not necessarily required to turn over every single shred of evidence collected. And since McVeigh is out of appeals, it is my understanding that he pretty well has to prove he's innocent of the crime in order to be successful in getting a new trial. ------------------ Houston Sports Board Film Dallas.com AntiBud.com
BK: I'm with you all the way on this one. I personally don't support the death penalty but I recognize the argument both ways and support discussion. However, I am still amazed when I hear politicians in Texas who favor the death penalty (republicans AND democrats) say that Texas has NEVER executed an innocent person. First off, it is impossible for them to know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that it has or hasn't happened. It is not within their physical ability to know every detail of every case. Secondly, it is incredibly arrogant to ever use words like NEVER or ALWAYS. I remember the first thing they taught you when taking a test was that if it was multiple choice and one of the answers included an absolute like NEVER or ALWAYS, you should assume it is NOT the correct answer. I don't have a problem discussing the death penalty in general. Obviously, there are differing ideologies on whether or not it should be used and I'm fine with the differences. My problem is this notion that our record is absolutely clean and so are our hands. That just bugs the hell out of me. ------------------ The internet is about the free exchange and sale of other people's ideas. - Futurama
No, yes, yes. The info is minor, would not change anything. McVeigh's lawyers could never prove justification for a re-trial. Yes on the exectuion because that was the conviction and it is bound by that. ------------------ "You sanctimonious philistines, who scoff at me!"
Rimmy! What would your French comrades say about that? ------------------ Everything you do, effects everything that is.
Mark, Didn't say I agreed, but he was sentenced to death...this info would not change that conviction, therefore, he is still sentenced to death. ------------------ "You sanctimonious philistines, who scoff at me!"
rimbaud: Yes, but if the death penalty was found to be unconstitutional, then legally, the sentence would never have existed, because the law would have been retroactively unenforceable . We have an odd system of judicial review! ------------------ A few years back on the Senate floor... Phil Gramm: "If Democrats could, they'd tax the air we breathe." Ted Kennedy (jumping up): "By God, why didn't I think of that sooner!" Boston College - NCAA Hockey National Champions 2001
Stay of execution denied. McVeigh to die next week. http://www.nandotimes.com/nation/story/21765p-411188c.html ------------------ Everything you do, effects everything that is.
Stick him in jail for life? I thought u were PRO Death Penalty . . . . . I think this man is pure evil and he should not be allow to Roam the street of society ever gain. He is a Mass Murderer. Like Jeff Dahmer. . . he should die. Rocket River ------------------
And as the two sayings go, "To assume is to make an ASS of U and ME." Or "Assumption is the mother of all f**k ups." ------------------ In the end there will be no judges...only witnesses to my greatness. [This message has been edited by Curly (edited June 06, 2001).]
My thought is if he admit it, screw it and fry him. No use wasting any time trying to prove he was innocent. If the evidence shows an accomplice or sheds a different view on the case, then the evidence needs to be presented to the courts. Anyways, justice is pathetic in this country, considering its based on "innocent till proven guilty". Our law system is to protect the innocent, not the guilty! ------------------ If Bill Gates had a dime for every time Windows crashed... Oh, Wait!! He Does!
Not to derail the topic, but... If Ashcroft says its true, then it must be! right? Nation: Justice Department finds no racial bias in capital cases By KAREN GULLO, Associated Press WASHINGTON (June 6, 2001 03:13 p.m. EDT) - A Justice Department review of federal capital crime cases has concluded there is no evidence of racial bias in the application of the death penalty, Attorney General John Ashcroft said Wednesday. The review was based on an analysis of nearly 900 death penalty cases and follows up on a Justice Department study released last year that found wide racial and geographic disparities in the federal death penalty system. "There is no evidence of racial bias in the administration of the federal death penalty," Ashcroft said in remarks prepared for a hearing on Capitol Hill. "Our analysis has confirmed that black and Hispanic defendants were less likely at each stage of the department's review process to be subjected to the death penalty than white defendants," Ashcroft said. Differences in state laws governing criminal cases, decisions by state prosecutors and geographical factors - not intentional racial bias - account for the fact that the majority of defendants facing federal death entences are minorities, the study showed. Details of the findings were provided by an official who requested anonymity. The study released last year showed that of 682 defendants charged with capital offenses between 1995 and 2000, 80 percent were minorities and 20 percent were white. Ultimately during this period, 20 defendants were sentenced to death, of which 20 percent were white and 80 percent minorities. The study also showed that only nine of the 94 U.S. attorney districts accounted for about 43 percent of all cases that prosecutors called for the death penalty. They were: Puerto Rico, the eastern district of Virginia, Maryland, the eastern and southern districts of New York, western Missouri, New Mexico, western Tennessee and northern Texas. In arriving at their conclusions, Justice Department lawyers looked at all the cases in the original study, gathered information from U.S. attorneys and analyzed another 200 federal death penalty cases that were not part of the 2000 study, the official said. The department found a similar ratio of minorities vs. white defendants in the 200 new cases studied. Based on results of the review, Ashcroft is satisfied that there's no intentional bias against minorities in the federal death penalty system, said the official. Ashcroft does not oppose the death penalty, but said during his confirmation hearing that further study was needed to ensure that racial bias played no role in federal death sentencing. Ashcroft also announced that he was changing federal death penalty protocols such that his approval would be required before a capitol charge may be dropped in the context of a plea bargain. He also directed the National Institute of Justice to initiate a study of how death penalty cases are brought into the federal system. Results of the review were being released as a federal judge in Denver refused to further delay execution of convicted Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh. He is scheduled to die Monday. The review comes just 13 days before the scheduled execution of Juan Raul Garza, a 44-year-old Hispanic from Texas who was convicted of running a mar1juana smuggling operation, killing one man and ordering the slayings of two others he thought were informants. Former President Clinton delayed Garza's execution pending a review of the 2000 death penalty study. Garza's lawyers have asked President Bush to commute Garza's sentence to life in prison without the possibility of parole, saying that without the results of the review, there's no telling whether his sentence was the result of bias against minorities. Citizens for a Moratorium on Federal Executions, a group of religious, civil rights and political leaders, has asked Bush to put all federal death sentences on hold, saying there are serious questions about whether the death penalty is applied fairly. The majority of the 20 inmates currently on federal death row are minorities. Bush supports the death penalty; Texas executed 152 people while he was governor. ------------------ Everything you do, effects everything that is.
What would be more interesting is a federal investigation about whether poor verus middle class versus rich persons convicted of similar capital murders indiscrimentaly get put to death. If there is widespread differences, that would show just as much of a flaw to most reasonable people as ethnicity-based comparisons.
Desert Scar: Much of that information is already out there. I wrote a comprehensive thesis paper about race, poverty, and the death penalty for a law class last semester. IF you want, I'll email or post the info when I get home tonight. Let me know if you want it. In brief, though, the information isn't going to affect the current situation. The Supreme Court has already ruled that general statistical proofs are NOT sufficient to overturn an individual case. Rather, racism must be proven to exist in a particular case, and must be considered the determinant factor. Which, of course, is virtually impossible. This came of a 5-4 decision in Texas, actually. The defendant/litigant's name was "Herrera." Also, you might want to look at Gregg v GA for more SC analysis. ------------------ A few years back on the Senate floor... Phil Gramm: "If Democrats could, they'd tax the air we breathe." Ted Kennedy (jumping up): "By God, why didn't I think of that sooner!" Boston College - NCAA Hockey National Champions 2001 [This message has been edited by haven (edited June 06, 2001).] [This message has been edited by haven (edited June 06, 2001).]
You suck! ------------------ The internet is about the free exchange and sale of other people's ideas. - Futurama
Yes, no, yes. it's amazing how so many investigations get screwed up. I wish he would be executed but since the government screwed up his attorneys should get the extra time to review the evidence. I don't agree but they screwed up.
Didn't the last topic you started get shut down? Are you trying to instigate again? All of my topics get whacked onto weird tangents. Affirmative Action, Gun Control, Race Relations, Do you Like You Car, etc. I figured this thread might mix liberals and conservatives instead of pitting them against each other. I am a uniter, not a divider. ------------------ http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets. <font size=1>[This message has NOT been edited by shanna (NOT edited June 06, 2001).]</font> <font color=white> [This message has been edited by shanna (edited June 06, 2001).]
My answer's a bit different: no, no, yes. I don't believe the mistake the FBI made really constitutes a breach of the Constitution worthy of a new trial, hence my first answer. My second answer "no," however, comes of the fact that I think the death penalty is an urbane form of murder - retributive justice, imo, is ethically bankrupt. My third answer, "yes," comes from the fact that the government did definitively make a mistake, just not one of sufficient magnitude to constitute a new trial. I defy anyone else to come to the same conclusions . ------------------ A few years back on the Senate floor... Phil Gramm: "If Democrats could, they'd tax the air we breathe." Ted Kennedy (jumping up): "By God, why didn't I think of that sooner!" Boston College - NCAA Hockey National Champions 2001
