Little above average??? How many centers does the NBA have? Since he is 3rd team NBA, the NBA must only have 6 or 7 centers all together. Try not to be too far off in your statements then people would less likely to call you idiot.
Exactly. You can NOT have a stupid (floor) general to lead your team to win big. IQ isn't sth can be easily improved on. That is why the team shouldn't wait any longer, especially with a chance to land McGrady.
tbui, Rule of thumb in bbs posting: If you can't stand the heat, don't get into the kitchen. When you post a view, chances are people will disagree with you. When people like thecabbage take time to refute your points, the last thing you should do is call them names like "idiot" because that can only make you look like that. What you need to do is to look whether his arguments have any rational flaws. If there are, then present them. If not, just say, "Thank you, I was wrong." While it is true that anyone can express his opinion, this board is not a place where you can just dump whatever you feel like. Just remember: Clutchfan is a place where every question is answered, and every answer is questioned. If you don't like it, don't come.
Talent-wise, what exactly about this team do you see that makes them special? Something that can makes them better than 29 other teams. The Lakers have Shaq and Kobe. The Wolves and Spurs have the two best players in the game. The Mavs and Kings have an all-star at every position. You obviously see a team different then I do. The Rockets that I see are a group of good (not great) players that work very hard, but potential of the team is not partcularly high. Certainly, not high enough to be the best team in basketball.
TMac: 2000-2001 Most Improved Player. Has raised assist averaged every season. Has raised FT% in each of last 5 seasons. Steve Francis: A "pg" who has seen his assist average drop every season in the league. Coming off career lows in: FG%, 3P%, assists, points, and very nearly rebounds and FT%. It's obvious what's happening here. TMac is trying to get worse, but he just keeps getting better. And all of Francis' desire and determination is keeping his assists down, and causing him to have the worst shooting year of his career by a wide margin. And thacabbage is the idiot. SamFisher: He's still averaging just under 30 ppg in the playoffs. The Magic did blow the 3-1 lead, granted. I wouldn't use that to call Tmac a playoff choker; I remember (and perhaps Macbeth can chime in) TMac for Toronto in the playoffs, I think their very first playoff series as a franchise- VC disappeared and TMac stepped it up off the bench.
on a side note, whats with all these newbies or low post count people creating threads/posts aganist trading francis.
I've been on this board for quite some time, but was moreso just wasting some time reading opinions about my home team and hearing the rumor mill. After reading this thread though, I had to respond because it's obvious to see that you're the one with the attitude and the juvenile name calling. Honestly, just read past posts from 'thacabbage' and you'll understand that he's not an instigator. So regardless of the opinions expressed, learn to debate in an educated fashion and you'll be taken more seriously. As far as this current argument, I'm an advocate of losing Francis while he still has value. I'm not sure of his current contract or how many years it's for, but I've never been a fan of his game. He's never learned to be in control and personally I feel that you need one person who can bring the ball up the floor who will be the calming influence on your team. The Lakers have Kobe and we could theoretically have Mcgrady. Mcgrady is a competitor who has taken sub-par teams and carried them on his back. I can just imagine what he would do with some semblance of a team surrounding him. At the same time, I can understand why so many people are advocates of keeping Francis around due to the idea that one day he'll come around and this team will really take off. I have to be realistic though and even though I may like Francis as a person, I don't think that we'll ever be an effective team with him at the helm. The problem stems from the fact that Francis is not suited to be a point guard. He may like the ball in his hands, but it's hard for him to distribute the ball effectively which can be seen by the amount of times our shots are taken in the waning seconds of the shot clock. Theoretically, he really could be a great player, but I don't think he'll ever reach his potential in our system. He needs to be on a team similar to Memphis where everything is a blur and he's being fed the ball to score points. Our system requires a player who is a marksmen with an understanding of passing and running the break. Things which Francis unfortunately lacks in. So even though Francis may have an epiphany this off-season which turns his game around, I don't think it's worth the risk while someone of Mcgrady's caliber could be feasibly had. Plus I'm pretty sure, people would come out to see Mcgrady play so I think our the big wigs at the Toyota Center are on top of this one already. Also before you begin debating stats, remember that Francis had teammates around him while Mcgrady didn't have much surrounding him at all.
Bottom line: With Steve at the Point, the Rox will maybe get out of the 1st round. With T-Mac they are title contenders. Tmac commands a double team which will free up other players esp. Yao. T-Mac is just as athletic (plus 5-6 inches taller) and a smarter player than Steve. How many times you see T-mac dribble the ball off his foot and stumble to the floor? The only deal-breaker is T-Mac's back problems. Otherwise, trade anyone not named Yao to get him.
Well if anything came out of this thread worth a damn, besides tcab et al shredding tbui's "arguments"(more like half assed rambling), it had to be getting a longtime lurker to chime in with a high quality post. Good stuff man. tcb, tcb.
What does making all NBA 3rd team have to do with anything? Yao Ming right now is a little above average. I really don't know if he's even better than Ilgauskas. I believe one day he will surpass Zeke, but right now it's very close. Yao has not shown the desire and willingness to step up (see 2004 playoffs). He is very inconsistent with his play. Franchise gets others involved and is an important part of the game even when he doesn't score (rebounds, assists). Yao gives you nothing and gets pushed around often as if he is intimidated. He really looked bad in the playoffs, which disappointed me greatly. There is no doubt Yao is good, but how good? Unless he steps up, we can talk about something. Now, people criticize Francis, but Mcgrady doesn't play defense--99.9% of the time. His body language is poor and he has not shown he can lead a team in the playoffs. Instead, he made a stupid comment in 2003's playoffs against the Hornets, which led to his own demise. Do you want a guy who has only shown a scoring prowess and not much else? Show me you can play defense, show me you can step up in dire situations. Lead your team past the 1st round. He couldn't do it in 2003. I wouldn't want this guy on my team if it required a blockbuster, restructuring trade. We must remember, T-mac is n ot KOBE no matter how much we want him to be. Now, unless he shows me something, the burden of proof still is on T-mac and the jury is awaiting the evidence.
Being selected into all NBA 3rd team was done by the experts. That means they agree Yao is 3rd best center in the league last season. That is the experts opinion, it is unlike the all star voting done by the fans. Yet, you consider him just a little above average. Hmm...
Dont know how he is goin to surpass zeke, one of the greatest pointguards that ever played. I dont recall them ever playing the hornets in the 03 playoffs. If I recall correctly they were eliminated in the first round by the pistons. I dont see how anybody can take you seriosly. Your arguments are full of holes and almost everyone of your statements can be refuted.
A goofy thread with some fine posts by many of our best, not the least of which being thacabbage. I just had to quote MacBeth again... looking at those numbers from McGrady has me drooling all over myself. Can you folks imagine him putting up anything close to those numbers on the Rocks come playoff time?? Wow! Sure, we're probably dreamin', but this team has pulled off amazing deals before. (OK, you can lock this now! )
we should commend tbui for starting this thread. if not for him, we wouldn't know what blind love for a player really was.
So now you're claiming that Yao is not good enough? To me, that makes an even stronger case for getting Mcgrady. T-mac's "body language is poor"? I don't even understand what point you are trying to make. You want Mcgrady to prove that he is worthy by leading his team past the first round, and yet Francis, who has won one playoff game in his 5 year career is better suited for this team? Would you have made the same case against KG before this year just because he hadn't been out of the first round? Every argument you have made in this thread has been easily refuted, and you have contradicted yourself multiple times. Please just give up, unless you want to call me an idiot or something before this thread is put out of its misery.
Is it that hard to openly admit "I love steve franchise. I disagree any trade involve steve even it would improve our team." Hey at least I respect u being upfront but instead u use the nonsense "opinion" to justify your emotional attachment. That's why I have always been upfront about my YOF status.
You're absolutely right. He's better. Dude, there's plenty of room on the T-Mac train. Hop on. You know you wanna. Ya know, the train where we take a smaller, lesser player and turn him into a taller, better player. Or you could just stay on your current train, the one being ran on you.
First of all the Rox are not that far away from contending using the nucleus of this current team. Compare the Rox performance against other teams that played the likely winner of the NBA championship, the LA Lakers. We lasted 5 games and were a couple of shots of taking the Lakers to 6 or 7 games not much worse than the Spurs or the Wolves. We don't need to dismantle this team. Secondly, I think the Laker role players have key roles in making the Lakers a championship caliber team. Kareem Rush and Derek Fisher were absolutely instrumental in winning key games for the Lakers. So its not all about the superstars and should be illustrative that depth is critical in the construction of a contending team. Thirdly, Mcgrady is not a messiah. You can think of good and bad scenarios in constructing a trade for McGrady. Trading McGrady straight up for Steve F. would be a great trade for the Rox but trading Steve F. plus Cato might not be a net positive. Sports is replete with teams that mortgaged their futures to get a superstar player to the competitive detriment of the team. Fourth, I care who plays point guard for us next year. The point guard will be critical in improving our turnover stat next year. We don't handle the ball near well enough and this is a critical area of improvement next year.
he doesn't make much more than Francis. He is signed to a 93 million dollar deal. Francis is signed to an 85 million dollar deal. I'm not sure how many years McGrady's deal is for but if it's 7 rather than the 6 year deal Francis signed, they're making pretty much the same money. aside from that, having two superstars of note like Yao and McGrady in a few years would lure players to the Rockets much like having Shaq and Kobe lured Malone and Payton to the Lakers this year. Put the pipe down.
