If this turns out to be weapons grade plutonium, will the anti-war folks (who called our President a liar in favor of French and Arab disinformation) come back and admit they were wrong? I doubt it. _________________________________________________ By Carl Prine TRIBUNE-REVIEW Wednesday, April 9, 2003 SOUTH OF BAGHDAD — In a valley sculpted by man, between the palms and roses, lies a vast marble and steel city known as Al-Tuwaitha. In the suburbs about 18 miles south of the capital's suburbs, this city comprises nearly 100 buildings — workshops, laboratories, cooling towers, nuclear reactors, libraries and barracks — that belong to the Iraqi Atomic Energy Commission. Investigators Tuesday discovered that Al-Tuwaitha hides another city. This underground nexus of labs, warehouses, and bomb-proof offices was hidden from the public and, perhaps, International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors who combed the site just two months ago, until the U.S. Marine Corps Combat Engineers discovered it three days ago. Today, the Marines hold it against enemy counter-attacks. So far, Marine nuclear and intelligence experts have discovered 14 buildings that betray high levels of radiation. Some of the readings show nuclear residue too deadly for human occupation. A few hundred meters outside the complex, where peasants say the "missile water" is stored in mammoth caverns, the Marine radiation detectors go "off the charts." "It's amazing," said Chief Warrant Officer Darrin Flick, the battalion's nuclear, biological and chemical warfare specialist. "I went to the off-site storage buildings, and the rad detector went off the charts. Then I opened the steel door, and there were all these drums, many, many drums, of highly radioactive material." To nuclear experts in the United States, the discovery of a subterranean complex is highly interesting, perhaps the atomic "smoking gun" intelligence agencies have been searching for as Operation Iraqi Freedom unfolds. Last fall, they say, the Central Intelligence Agency prodded international inspectors to probe Al-Tuwaitha for weapons of mass destruction. The inspectors came away with nothing. "They went through that site multiple times, but did they go underground? I never heard anything about that," said physicist David Albright, a former IAEA Action Team inspector in Iraq from 1992 to 1997. Officials at the IAEA could not be reached for comment. "The Marines should be particularly careful because of those high readings. Three hours at levels like that and people begin to vomit. That leads me to wonder, if the readings are accurate, whether radioactive material was deliberately left there to expose people to dangerous levels. "You couldn't do scientific work in levels like that. You would die." Albright hopes the Marines safeguard any documents they find and preserve the site for analysis. That, say the Combat Engineers, is their mission. Nestled in a bend in the Tigris River, Al-Tuwaitha was built in the early 1960s. Nuclear experts believe the government began Iraq's nuclear weapons program there between 1972 and 1976. Satellite imagery shows dramatic expansion at the site in the '70s, '80s and '90s, according to the Institute for Science and International Security. Mindful of nuclear weapons inspectors, ISIS said the Iraqis developed methods to thwart them when they visited Al-Tuwaitha. "Iraq developed procedures to limit access to these buildings by IAEA inspectors who had a right to inspect the fuel fabrication facility. On days when the inspectors were scheduled to visit, only the fuel fabrication rooms were open to them. Usually, employees were told to take their rooms so that the inspectors did not see an unusually large number of people," according to a 1999 report Albright wrote with Corey Gay and Khidhir Hamza for ISIS. Hamza, an Iraqi nuclear engineer who defected from Iraq in 1994, testified before Congress last August that Iraq could have had nuclear weapons by 2005. Yesterday, Hamza expressed great surprise that the underground site could even exist. The ground there is muddy and composed of clay, he said. The water table is barely a foot and a half below the surface of the ground. During construction of one of the former nuclear reactors there, French engineers spent a fortune pumping water from the foundation area, only to see buildings crumble when the water was removed. Hamza said the French built a reactor at Al-Tuwaitha that Israel destroyed in 1981. The Russians built a reactor that was destroyed during the Gulf War. Both had the muddy ground to contend with. So the Marine's discovery makes the former atomic inspector wonder if the Iraqis went to the colossal expense of pumping enough water to build the underground city because no reasonable inspector would think anything might be built underground there. Nobody would expect it,” Hamza said. “Nobody would think twice about going back there.” Despite being destroyed twice by bombings, Al-Tuwaitha nevertheless grew to become headquarters of the Iraqi nuclear program, with several research reactors, plutonium processors and uranium enrichment facilities bustling, according to the Federation of American Scientists. "The plutonium processing was dispersed on-site by the bombing in 1991," said Michael Levi, the Federation's director. "But the Iraqis started to rebuild it. And they continued building there after 1998, when the Iraqis ended the inspections. "I do not believe the latest round of inspections included anything underground, so anything you find underground would be very suspicious. It sounds absolutely amazing." Outside the gates yesterday, children on donkeys dragged air conditioners from the area, part of the ongoing looting of government offices, Iraqi army forts and Baathist Party headquarters. The nuclear scientists, engineers and technicians, housed in a plush neighborhood near the campus, have run away, along with Baathist party loyalists. Farmers in rags drive the scientists' Mercedes and Land Rovers across Highway Six, filled with looted color televisions, silk rugs and Burberry suits. That's where the Marines see the grand irony. Amidst grinding poverty, where peasants eke an existence out of dust and river water, the Saddam Hussein regime built a lavish atomic weapons program. In a nation with some of the world's largest petroleum reserves, Saddam saw the need for nuclear energy. "It's going to take some very smart people a very long time to sift through everything here," said Flick. "All this machinery. All this technology. They could do a lot of very bad things with all of this." The mayor of this high-tech city is, for now, Capt. John Seegar, a combat engineer commander from Houston, Tx. He trudges up the 10-story hillocks hiding the campus from the surrounding villages and, crossing near a demolished mud bunker, it all opens up, gleaming and swaddled in roses. "I've never seen anything like it, ever," said Seegar, who leads a company of combat engineers turned into combat grunts. "How did the world miss all of this? Why couldn't they see what was happening here?" Seegar's biggest headache: Peasant looters, who keep cutting through the miles of barbed wire, no longer electrified because the war killed the power. He cradles in his arms blueprints in Arabic, showing recent construction, and maps in English, detailing which buildings test radioactive. Next to each, Seegar's placed an asterisk. "Three weeks ago, the scientists seemed to have abandoned the complex," said Seegar. "That's what the villagers say. The place was protected by the Special Republic Guard, but they deserted it, too. Four days ago, everyone was gone. Then we came." For him, Al-Tuwaitha is like a crime scene, and the next detectives on the atomic beat will be Army specialists. Seegar promises to hold the nuclear site until international authorities can take over. His men hunker down in sandbag bunkers, sleepless, gripping machine guns. Last night, they followed running gun and artillery battles on both sides of the complex, fought by U.S. Marines and soldiers against Iraqi Republican Guards and Fedayeen terrorists. In the deserted edifices of Iraqi science, there is the omnipresent Saddam. Paintings show Saddam with scientists; Saddam with farmers; Saddam with soldiers. On the walls, Saddam's face. In the scrub surrounding the guard bunkers, murals of Saddam. There are books of Saddam sayings. Scientists' offices glitter with medals, from Saddam. The offices underground, under unlit signs warning of "Gas/Gaz," are stuffed with videos and pictures, all showing how this complex was built, largely over the last four years after formal international inspections ended. The Marines haven't even mapped all the subterranean tunnels veining the site. In an above-ground library built like a fortress with a beautiful alabaster marble now washed in dust and mud, the clocks stopped at ten minutes until one. The stacks, cool because of the marble, hold the scientific manuals, textbooks and published papers for the Iraqi intelligentsia. In the commanding general's study, goldfish still swim in a long tank, glittering like the medals on his desk from Saddam. "Peaceful Uses of Atomic Energy for Scientific and Economic Development," a bulky green tome published in 1975, leans against the general's wall, under a picture of Saddam, whose Baathist Party came to power four years later in a bloody coup. On a mantle, folded under documents, a Christmas card never sent. On the front is a dove, its wings the ellipses of the atom, tinged in orange, yellow and green. Under it, a tiger, facing backward, its body a swirl of Arabic letters. Inside the card: "Rights of Third World Peoples To Alternate Energy Sources For the Future Development of Their Environment and Culture." The next page: "Let Us Hope This New Year Will Be a Year of Peace and Justice and With All Good Wishes for Christmas and the New Year." Signed, Iraqi Atomic Energy Commission. Baghdad. Carl Prine can be reached at cprine@tribweb.com.
I'm going to reserve judgment until we see lots of mainstream coverage (not that I fully trust that either). Nonetheless, if I was an Iraqi nuclear weapons scientist, and I had to abandon my post in advance of an inevitable defeat…..I’d surely expect my last instructions to be to contaminate the whole area prior to leaving.
I will too. Think about this though- the Iraqis don't possess a breeder reactor, so the alledged weapons grade plutonium must be imported, according to a weapons expert that I heard on TV. Who would be the likely culprits? France and Russia come to mind immediately.
John, That is probably why France and Russia so vehemetly oppposed the war. When we find out that the depth of their connections with Iraq, we need to publish those. Turn on the lights and let the cockroaches scatter. DD
FYI- The two most advanced nuclear powered countries France and Japan do not have active Breeder reactor technology. Its a developing tech. much like fusion reactors. To even mention that- well this thread along with its title is most likely completely inaccurate.
So are ya'll suggesting that France sold nuclear materials to Iraq? And before you call me a Freedom Fry orBush Hatin' Hippie ...I'm honestly trying to understand your point about the French y Iraq
I read in a blurb somewhere about reactions to North Korean nuclear announcements somewhere recently that Japan could start up a nuclear weapons program quickly by converting their space program (for delivery systems) and using existing nuclear plant byproducts. Anyways, back on the WMD search: http://www.msnbc.com/news/898229.asp
Mobile bio/chem lab found They just found this Marines Find Possible Mobile Bio-Weapons Lab Thursday, April 10, 2003 By Rick Leventhal BAGHDAD, Iraq — U.S. Marines near Baghdad may have found a mobile biological- or chemical-weapons lab, Fox News learned Thursday afternoon. Resembling a refrigerated truck from the outside, and containing guided-missile support equipment, the truck was found to have a false internal wall that concealed an remote-controlled electronic pulley-and-winch system and several open bins and containers. Investigators told Fox News the system resembled a hazardous-materials lab, where substances could be mixed, cooled and heated without direct human contact. Hazardous materials may have been found inside the truck as well. Marines found the truck parked at what resembled a construction site, but it started to drive away as they approached and refused orders to stop. The U.S. forces fired upon the truck. There was no information on the driver, but video footage of the scene showed the driver's-door window shot out. Anti-aircraft guns, a surface-to-air missile and several caches of weapons and ammunition were also found at the site.
Later article from same source: http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/s_128508.html Team arrives at nuclear plant to hunt for plutonium Web Links By Carl Prine TRIBUNE-REVIEW Thursday, April 10, 2003 SOUTH OF BAGHDAD: A scout team from the Pentagon's Defense Threat Reduction Agency arrived in a convoy at the Al-Tuwaitha nuclear complex today, beginning a probe that could take weeks to determine what weapons of mass destruction reside above and below ground at the sprawling secret city. "We are here to see what's here," said U.S. Army Maj. Ken Deal of Manassas, Vir. “We will determine when a larger team of scientists will show up. This could take days. We'll know later in the week.” After a quick inspection at what military authorities call the “Yellowcake Facility” a few hundred meters offsite, the Army specialists told the Marines they suspect Al-Tuwaitha harbors weapons-grade plutonium at the Yellowcake site. Previously, it was believed by international inspectors to hold uranium. Marines now must safeguard those atomic stores, too. The Combat Engineers say looters or Iraqi officials broke seals placed on uranium stores at the Yellowcake site by the International Atomic Energy Agency. The Pentagon team also began interviewing a former nuclear physicist and engineer who recently worked at Al-Tuwaitha. The two men told the Marines they would show Coalition investigators “everything we didn't show the inspectors” from the IAEA. More former workers are expected to gravitate back to Al-Tuwaitha in the coming weeks, Marines believe. The reason: They're seeking back pay. It seems Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein never paid his nuclear researchers before evacuating the site. The IAEA probed the Al-Tuwaitha site 12 times over the last four months after inspections searching for banned weapons of mass destruction resumed after a four-year hiatus. According to the IAEA, however, investigators found no evidence of illegal nuclear weapons production. Speaking on condition of anonymity, IAEA investigators said they would be “surprised, but not necessarily shocked” if Coalition scientists uncovered illegal atomic weapons production at Al-Tuwaitha. IAEA officials had long voiced concern about the lack of inspections since 1998, when the Iraqi Baathist regime barred them. These IAEA authorities insisted they had extensively probed Al-Tuwaitha when they returned, and had begun to make significant progress before hostilities broke out between Iraq and the U.S. “To date we have found no evidence or plausible indication of the revival of a nuclear weapons program in Iraq,” wrote IAEA director Mohamed ElBaradei in his final March report on Iraqi inspections. Carl Prine can be reached at cprine@tribweb.com.
Vis a vis Russian nuclear support of Iraq, if the PBS special on this was any indication, it would be scarily easy for someone to get enough dangeously radioactive products from the former states of the USSR to make a dirty bomb to irradiate large urban areas. Even a small one would be pretty disruptive. One doesn't need to make a full fledged nuclear device using exotic processed Uranium or Plutonium. The US cutback on funding to secure sites storing nuclear waste in those areas, on the theory, that we'll let them have the stuff, then invade?
Are you sure about that? I've read that France closed down the SuperPhenix--the largest breeder reactor EVER, but they still have one or two smaller ones left for "government studies." And I know that Japan....while behind France in the technology....operates one or two of them themselves. As opposed to an emerging tech...I think it might be more of a dying tech. Too much opposition. People are giving up on it.
Could you please expand on your criticisms? You obviously know more about this technology than I do. I am particularly interested in why you find the article "most likely completely inaccurate". Thanks in advance.
The french sold the first nuclear reactor to Iraq -- the one that the Israelis blew up. Furthermore, the Russians have sold nuclear technology to Iran that the US contends is for making nuclear weapons grade material. These two facts lead many people to believe that either the French or Russians would entertain these types of thoughts. I don't think there's any hard evidence. Re: Tuwatha, it was one of the places that Iraq has used as a "red herring" site in the past. (See this UN interview with General Hussein Kamal, Saddam's 'deceased' son-in-law, who defected and undefected) In this light it would seem to make the issue more hazy.
Update of opinion guys anyways: http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/5605347.htm U.S. Nuke Find Claim in Iraq Critiqued WILLIAM J. KOLE Associated Press VIENNA, Austria - American troops who suggested they uncovered evidence of an active nuclear weapons program in Iraq unwittingly may have stumbled across known stocks of low-grade uranium, officials said Thursday. They said the U.S. troops may have broken U.N. seals meant to keep control of the radioactive material. Leaders of a U.S. Marine Corps combat engineering unit claimed earlier this week to have found an underground network of laboratories, warehouses and bombproof offices beneath the closely monitored Tuwaitha nuclear research center just south of Baghdad. The Marines said they discovered 14 buildings at the site which emitted unusually high levels of radiation, and that a search of one building revealed "many, many drums" containing highly radioactive material. If documented, such a discovery could bolster Bush administration claims that Saddam Hussein was trying to develop nuclear weaponry. Lt. Cmdr. Charles Owens, a spokesman for the U.S. Central Command, said officials there have not heard anything through military channels about a Marine inspection at Tuwaitha. The Vienna-based International Atomic Energy Agency, which has inspected the Tuwaitha nuclear complex at least two dozen times and maintains a thick dossier on the site, had no immediate comment. But an expert familiar with U.N. nuclear inspections told The Associated Press that it was implausible to believe that U.S. forces had uncovered anything new at the site. Instead, the official said, the Marines apparently broke U.N. seals designed to ensure the materials aren't diverted for weapons use - or end up in the wrong hands. "What happened apparently was that they broke IAEA seals, which is very unfortunate because those seals are integral to ensuring that nuclear material doesn't get diverted," the expert said, speaking on condition of anonymity. The Army Times, meanwhile, reported that troops with the 101st Airborne Division have unearthed 11 shipping containers, filled with sophisticated lab equipment, buried at a chemical plant in Karbala. It said the equipment's value and evidence that some of it may have been smuggled into Iraq raised suspicions that the facility had been used to manufacture chemical weapons. U.N. arms inspectors visited a facility in the immediate vicinity of the chemical plant Feb. 23, but did not find the buried equipment. Officials at the U.S. Central Command suggested that no conclusions should be drawn. Several tons of low-grade uranium has been stored at Tuwaitha, Iraq's principle nuclear research center and a site that has been under IAEA safeguards for years, the official said. The Iraqis were allowed to keep the material because it was unfit for weapons use without costly and time-consuming enrichment. Tuwaitha contains 1.8 tons of low-grade enriched uranium and several tons of natural and depleted uranium. The uranium was inspected by the U.N. nuclear agency twice a year and was kept under IAEA seal - at least until early this week, when the Marines seized control of the site. The U.N. nuclear agency's inspectors have visited Tuwaitha about two dozen times, including a dozen checks carried out since December, most recently on Feb. 6. It was among the first sites that IAEA inspectors sought out after the resumption of inspections on Nov. 27 after a nearly four-year break. On at least one occasion, inspectors with special mountaineering training went underground there to have a look around, according to IAEA documents. David Kay, a former IAEA chief nuclear inspector, said Thursday that the teams he oversaw after the 1991 Gulf War never found an underground site at Tuwaitha despite persistent rumors. "But underground facilities by definition are very hard to detect," he said. "When you inspect a place so often, you get overconfident about what you know. It would have been very easy for the inspectors to explain away any excessive radiation at Tuwaitha. The Iraqis could have hidden something clandestine in plain sight." American intelligence analysts said before the U.S.-led campaign began that new structures photographed at Tuwaitha might indicate a revival of weapons work. IAEA inspectors checked but found nothing. The Tuwaitha complex, run by the Iraqi Atomic Energy Commission on a bend in the Tigris River about 18 miles south of Baghdad, was the heart of Saddam's former nuclear program and was involved in the final design of a nuclear bomb before Iraq's nuclear program was destroyed by U.N. teams after the 1991 Gulf War. The IAEA, charged with the hunt for evidence of a nuclear program in Iraq, told the Security Council just before the war that it had uncovered no firm evidence that Saddam was renewing efforts to add nuclear weapons to his arsenal. IAEA Director-General Mohamed ElBaradei, clearly wary of any coalition claims, said this week that any alleged discoveries of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq would have to be verified by U.N. inspectors "to generate the required credibility." ElBaradei said the inspectors should return as soon as possible, subject to Security Council guidance, to resume their search for banned arms.
Yet another view: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...1apr11,1,1411060.story?coll=la-home-headlines U.S. Finally Secures Uranium Warehouses in Iraq By Bob Drogin, Times Staff Writer WASHINGTON -- Three Iraqi warehouses filled with 2,500 barrels of uranium that could be enriched for nuclear weapons -- plus 150 radioactive isotopes that could be used for deadly "dirty bombs" -- lay unguarded for several days this week as Iraqi mobs swirled around. ...
Sorry woofer, but you need a credible source like Fox, wait a second. . . Fox News Looks like they posted the same story on their site. Of course, the headline in bold leads to the original story that claims possible weapons grade plutonium: WMD Materials Possibly Found Then under it, the link to the AP article you posted is this: U.N. May Have Known of Uranium Makes it seem that the UN knew of weapons grade stuff. To be fair though, Marines may have found one of those mobile bio labs. Possible Mobile Weapons Lab Found
