We already made one mistake with a guy who had all the "potential" but hasn't done ****! (Cato) I really don't want to make that mistake again. ------------------
I would hope the Rockets find some way to dump Kato and Collier. And then sign either Mohammed or Jackson. Both are risks but at the moment we don't have a starting center. ------------------
Unlike Cato, Marc Jackson produced. And for people who say he put up good numbers on a bad team there are two sides to that coin. Yeah he put up good numbers on a bad team, but he also didn't have the protection and help he could get with the Rockets. I don't know how people can compare Jackson to Cato. Jackson works hard, Cato doesn't. Jackson rebounds, Cato doesn't. Jackson scores, Cato doesn't. I don't know why people are afraid to take a chance on center who had "one good year", but are excited about a college player that had "one good year"! Griffin showed the potential to be a superstar after one year, Jackson showed the potential to be a good roleplayer after one year! A risk is a risk, sometimes it hurts, (Maloney, Price, Cato), sometimes it pays off (Mario Elie, Chucky Brown, Robert Horry, Moochie Norris). ------------------ "Win if you can, lose if you must but always cheat!" - Jesse Ventura [This message has been edited by RocksMillenium (edited July 01, 2001).]
Marc Jackson didn't have "one good year". He was injured for almost half of it, he only played in 52 games. Do we really want to spend money on a free agent that has yet to make it through an entire year? His rebounding #'s are inflated b/c he played for the Warriors. I'll say it again... The warriors led the league in team rebounding, but their opponents are also #2 in rebounding. That means there are a lot of rebounding opportunities in a Warriors game, more opportunities = higher #'s. I trust Swopa's evaluation on Marc Jackson considering Swopa's in the sad and unusual position of being a Warriors fan. Marc Jackson is Ike Austin... ------------------ This post contains no smilies, you must judge my seriousness on your own... "I'm a Level 18 mage, wanna form a party?" -- Dr of Geekdom in search of a D&D buddy...
I think the perfect fit for the Rockets is Adonal Foyle, not Marc Jackson. Foyle has somehwat of a touch and he was one of the league leaders in blocks. He can also rebound like a madman. But we wont get him, so i guesss the rocks better hope Cato stays healthy or Collier as a breakout year. ------------------ One of the newest members of the New Jersey Nets fan club.
Kenyon Martin missed a good chunk of the year and I'm pretty sure people would take a chance on him! 52 games is still a lot to judge a younger player on! I still don't see the comparison's between him and Ike Austin. Ike Austin is a soft center that had a weight problem that intially drove him out of the league, and isn't motivated unless his job and a contract is on the line. Marc Jackson is a hard working big man, with skills who just wants to make it in the NBA after playing all over the world. Those players are hungry and dangerous. I'd take a chance on him. Guys who average 13 points 7 rebounds a game in 29 minutes of action and are roleplayers don't grow on trees! ------------------ "Win if you can, lose if you must but always cheat!" - Jesse Ventura [This message has been edited by RocksMillenium (edited July 01, 2001).]
By saying that Jackson is Ike Austin, you guys are saying that he has skills. Ike Austin was a heck of a player as a half-a-year starter in Miami. His problem was character and motivation: he got the big payday and figured he didn't need to produce anymore. I don't know Marc Jackson so I don't know whether he would do the same. But I would like to get the package of solid rebounding and sharp outside shooting in a center, even if he didn't do much as a defensive presence. You have to remember the "talent" base we've got left at that position, when Hakeem leaves. ------------------ I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip that I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis.
Exactly Sam! That's Austin's problems, weight problems and motivation. He was a pretty good center coming into Utah the first time around but ate himself out of league. I saw Marc Jackson play on Temple in the mid-90s, and the Marc Jackson now is the NBA version of the Marc Jackson in college. It's rare that you can see a guy put the same game on different levels. But people saying he put up good numbers on a bad team, Foyle and Miller are on bad teams to. In fact Foyle only played in 58 games and average 5.9 points and 7 rebounds in 25 minutes of action. Brad Miller in only 57 games played average 8.9 points and 7.4 rebounds in 25 minutes of action. Marc Jackson in 29 minutes of action averaged 13 points and 7 rebounds! I think he is bigger, stronger, and more talented of any of the big men we can afford right now. ------------------ "Win if you can, lose if you must but always cheat!" - Jesse Ventura [This message has been edited by RocksMillenium (edited July 01, 2001).]
A) There's a big difference between a first overall pick who misses part of a year but is considered extremely talented maintaining interest and a very old rookie coming out of nowhere and putting up pretty good numbers for half a year and getting hurt. B) IF last year was Marc Jackson's only year, AND he's now a free agent, what exactly do you have upon which you can base that he wasn't playing for a new contract? ------------------
Where do you guys hear that he's a hardworker? Kenyon Martin was the #1 pick in the draft, Marc Jackson wasn't even drafted, that's not a good comparison. 13 points and 7 rebounds for the WARRIORS! We need a center that can block shots, that's what matters in the NBA, a C that can block shots. Chris Mills 6.2 rebounds for the Warriors in 32 minutes, why don't we try to get this hardworking rebounder? Who here has seen Marc Jackson more than 3 times this season? I haven't, if you haven't, please tell me where you heard that Marc Jackson is a hardworking big man? ------------------ This post contains no smilies, you must judge my seriousness on your own... "I'm a Level 18 mage, wanna form a party?" -- Dr of Geekdom in search of a D&D buddy...
Everybody plays for a contract, but there is a difference between Austin, eats his way out of the league, comes back, gets a contract, and then plays like garbage again. He has a pattern of being lazy, so playing for a contract was the only reason I can see him playing well for half a season. Marc Jackson has always been a hard working player who gives it his all dating back to his days in Temple. He made a mistake leaving his junior year, but now that he is given a chance he is playing hard. Austin played hard and then quit after he got his contract. ------------------ "Win if you can, lose if you must but always cheat!" - Jesse Ventura
Who here has seen Marc Jackson more than 3 times this season? I haven't, if you haven't, please tell me where you heard that Marc Jackson is a hardworking big man? You can't speak for me, I SAW him play at Temple. I've SEEN numerous games of his at Golden State. THAT'S why I think you guys are judging him on a few games you saw him in. I saw Marc Jackson play in numerous collegiate games. I saw him play in NCAA Tournament games. The guy plays hard. John Chaney preached about his work ethic going as far as calling him the "hub" of the Temple team his 3 years there. So I'm one of the few people who have actually seen him play and are judging him on first hand accounts. And there is the difference between Chris Mills, a SF playing center for us and a 6-10 player playing center for us. By the way draft selections don't always determine how good a player is. Matt Maloney wasn't drafted and helped us get to the WCF. And if draft selections counted, Bowie would be Hall-of-Famer, Christian Laettner would be leading Orlando to NBA championships, and Harold Miner would be an All-star, and Van Exel would be out of the league, and Dennis Rodman wouldn't even be a footnote in basketball history. ------------------ "Win if you can, lose if you must but always cheat!" - Jesse Ventura [This message has been edited by RocksMillenium (edited July 01, 2001).]
Yes I realize that #1 draft picks don't always work out and that sometimes there's a surprise in an undrafted rookie. The #1 pick in the draft is an investment in a player, if he gets injured for a season, you still have hope that he will pan out. Signing an undrafted rookie isn't a risk at all, if Marc Jackson sucked, it wouldn't hurt GS to let him go so spare me the Kenyon Martin comparisons. The best teams in this league have a shotblocking center. LA - Shaq (2.76 blocks/game) San Antonio - Robinson (2.46) Philly - Mutombo (3.13) Milwakee - Johnson (2.06) Dallas - Bradley (3.00) Charlotte - Campbell (1.79) Indiana - O'neal (2.81) Miami - Mourning (2.38) NY - Camby (2.16) Toronto - A. Davis (1.94) The only teams that didn't have a center with at least 1.1 blocks/game was Portland, Phoenix, Utah, Sacramento, Orlando, and Minnesota. The only team to make it out of the 1st round of that group was Sacramento, they beat Phoenix. Marc Jackson averages .5 block/game Even if you do blocks/48 minutes he doesn't crack the top 40. Sure Griffin is a nice weakside shotblocker, but we still need a C that can block shots. At least that's what it looks like to me when looking at the playoff teams... ------------------ This post contains no smilies, you must judge my seriousness on your own... "I'm a Level 18 mage, wanna form a party?" -- Dr of Geekdom in search of a D&D buddy...
Who is the shotblocker for Sacramento? Or Phoenix? or even Portland? Shotblocking only takes you so far. Shotblockers didn't stop the Lakers. Mutombo stopped Shaq by bodying him up. The same way the Jazz got to two Finals, and Seattle got to the Finals, and the same way Indiana got there, or the Bulls won 6 championships, you play with team defense. And throwing in a solid rebounder like Marc Jackson helps our team defense because he can get rebounds for us. Getting a shotblocker would be nice, but it isn't the difference between being a playoff team and a lottery team. In fact, the reason people wanted Chris Webber WASN'T because of his shot blocking, but his rebounding and scoring. As long as the Rockets play team defense, a shotblocker isn't necessary. Besides, beggers can't be choosers. We don't have many big men to choose from and Foyle and Miller aren't exactly much better shotblockers then Marc Jackson. And this ISN'T about comparing the guy to Kenyon Martin the freaking player, it's about you saying that he was hurt, so he must not be able to get to through the season. I was telling YOU that Kenyon Martin got hurt and HE will be ok! I'm NOT comparing them as players. And we're trying to GET to the playoffs! We have to get there first before worrying about advancing. And I'm not asking to give the guy a life time contract, just try him out for a year, because who else do you see the Rockets signing!? ------------------ "Win if you can, lose if you must but always cheat!" - Jesse Ventura [This message has been edited by RocksMillenium (edited July 01, 2001).]
This is a moot point because it appears the Rockets are interested in him anyway, so I we'll have to wait and see what happens. ------------------ "Win if you can, lose if you must but always cheat!" - Jesse Ventura
As was pointed out in my post, Sacramento, Portland, and Phoenix didn't have a shotblocker at center, the only team that made it to the 2nd round was Sacramento, they beat Phoenix who had no shotblocker. I want a team that can get past the 2nd round in the playoffs, I just showed you that the only teams that advanced in the playoffs (outside of Sacramento) had a center that could block shots. Chris Webber is a powerforward, he does not play center, if he played center, then his team is in trouble. You point out that shotblockers couldn't beat the Lakers, do you remember who's at center for the Lakers? Shaq IS a shotblocker as was pointed out in my previous post. Beggars can't be choosers, well I choose not to pay the 6'10 PF that can play C any longterm contract just b/c I'm desperate. Utah at least had someone that was tall playing center for them, 6'10 centers that can't block are worthless to a contending team. I'd rather re-sign Hakeem and worry about finding his replacement next season, no way do I want to rely on a 6'10 C to help my team move in the playoffs. I don't want Foyle or Miller either... Also on the try him out for a year thing, is Marc Jackson going to sign just a 1 year contract with us? If that's the case then I'll be happy to sign him... ------------------ This post contains no smilies, you must judge my seriousness on your own... "I'm a Level 18 mage, wanna form a party?" -- Dr of Geekdom in search of a D&D buddy... [This message has been edited by Band Geek Mobster (edited July 01, 2001).]
I dont mean to ruffle any feathers here, but I wanted to do some double checking on opinions of Jackson after reading Swopa's comments a while back. Its just sounded to me like the comments reaked of (the guy isnt athletic so he cant defend which makes him soft and overrated.) That imo is an absolutely incorrect way of looking at a player. Just b/c your athletic and can block shots and appear to the average fan to be the next stud on defense does not make you something special. This was the error that was made on Cato. Defense is all about positioning, desire, strength and holding your ground. I would much rather have a player like Jackson who can defend guys well by holding his position than someone who on the surface appears to be a good defender (remember folks were geeked about Cato?) but ends up being a dud. That being said, I went around and spoke with folks whose opinions in bball I respect and who have watched Jackson since his days in high school in Philly. They grew up in Philly and got to see the whole gamut of Philly players in their high school days and watch them mature. Basically, the opinion was very similar to that of Millenium in that Jackson is a very hard worker and improved his game on many levels when he went to Europe. He plays solid position defense, is a very good rebounder and has a smooth shooting touch. I would tend to believe people's opinions of Jackson who have watched him since HS over someone like Swopa who probably hasnt even heard of the guy until he set foot in Golden State. Just b/c a player went to Europe to improve his game does not make him bad; Antonio Davis played in Europe to hone his skills. As far as the shotblocking and Nazr Mohammed issues.... The Rockets are in a position to sign Jackson and re-sign Olajuwon and Taylor assuming Hakeem backs off his ridiculous asking price. This team should not just avoid Jackson b/c he isnt a shotblocking center. A shotblocker can be acquired later on if necessary once Hakeem retires or through the draft. The upcoming yrs in free agency dont look good at all; folks are hoping for centers like LaFrentz and Kandi, but these guys are all RESTRICTED. Jackson is only restricted up to 4.5 mil, these others are restricted up to any amount. Banking on future FA classes is not a smart move now, the NBA has made it a lot easier from next summer on for teams to retain their players. The rap on Nazr Mohammed is that he gives very little effort in practice and is not very coachable. In a nutshell, he's high on talent, low on everything else. Where have we heard this before? ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
Jackson could also play PF at times, being that he's 6-10. I know I wouldn't mind. ------------------
